Known egg donor stipulating one child only

[Pouragandt]

Gosh, well I've had a bit of a shocker today.

So after several losses following having our healthy daughter 10 years ago, my sister kindly agreed to being mine and my husband's egg donor so that we could try and conceive again. We also used a sperm donor and were blessed with a healthy son 2 years ago.

We have always wanted 3 babies so decided now's the time to try again - we're very fortunate to have 5 good quality frozen embryos from the IVF cycle with my sister's eggs and the sperm donor. I'm 42 so time is of the essence!

I let my sister know yesterday that we were going to do another transfer as soon as possible and she said she feels let down and disappointed that we didn't discuss it with her first.

She then went on to say today that she only went ahead with the egg donation on the assumption that it was for our 'long-awaited second child' and she doesn't want us going again. I'm so upset that I may not have another baby and that I might have to destroy our embryos (after having lost 3 babies in the past; one full term) just to respect my sister's wishes. Am I right in thinking she's being unreasonable?! Please send help! X

We don't actually know the sister's reasoning, and I am not saying the sister is in the wrong, but she donated the eggs, she knew there would be multiple embryos and that could lead to multiple children.
Did she know there could be multiple children though (other than the case of a multiple birth)? The OP says her sister didn't specify only one child, so was it discussed at all?

It's a completely different situation donating to a 39 year old with one child who longs for a second, and donating to a 42 year old with two children and who had serious complications with her last birth. I think it should be up to the sister if she wants another child brought into the world that genetically hers in the changed circumstances. She may be afraid to lose her sister. What her reasons are don't matter though, she should have been asked in my opinion.

@Christmasfairy2020

How old are your current children. Maybe get a dog? Have they both started school and your feeling lonely

Jesus Christ. A dog is no substitute for a child.

I often think Mumsnet is full of women who have their desired quota of children and are seemingly incapable of understanding the dilemmas and grief that those who don't have to grapple with.

Whatever the sister thought or felt when she was donating her eggs, may bear no similarity to the reality of watching her biological child being brought up by her sister.

We cannot expect the sister to feel exactly the same after the birth, as she did before it.

[quote Tubbs99]@BlondeRaven This isn’t a business transaction. One sister donated her eggs to the other sister with the hope of creating a new human being. There are a lot of emotions and family dynamics involved here, not forgetting those of the resulting child who’ll be growing up into an adult with his own thoughts about this “transaction”. [/quote]
I fully understand what a amazing thing the ops sister did but that dosnt mean the sister should be dictating how big the ops family is. She shouldn’t have agreed to it if she wasn’t willing to let the op make the decisions about the eggs, even more so because they are sisters, the sister has watched the op go through miscarriages and a still birth and watched her suffer for years, she knows how much having children to her means, now she’s saying well i know I gave you my eggs but I get to choose how many children you have from them.

The sister has apparently said she sees her nephew and nothing more than a nephew, if this isn’t the case she needs to be honest with the op. If it’s just because she dosnt want op to have more children that’s completely shitty and she should never have volunteered and allowed to op to find an anonymous donor.

I understand women can change their minds once they donate eggs but I do not agree with this. I think in some ways it should be viewed as a transaction, once you donate, been through all the counselling and agree to everything you shouldn’t be able to change you mind especially when the recipients have already been through so much trauma to get to this stage and are paying for everything involved.

and are paying for everything involved

WTAF?!

How about we turn it on its head, for you - the OP should not be able to stipulate how many children her sister has.

I think in some ways it should be viewed as a transaction, once you donate, been through all the counselling and agree to everything you shouldn’t be able to change you mind especially when the recipients have already been through so much trauma to get to this stage and are paying for everything involved.
I profoundly disagree with you. And I say that as a recipient.

@TooTiredForToday

I do think if she is refusing consent for some of the reasons suggested here like she thinks 3 is too many or OP is too old, that is really shitty. No one on here can know her reasons for withdrawing consent but the OP has been given a really unnecessarily hard time, in my view.

The embryos are the OPs. Her son is her son.

When you have embryos, whatever their biological source, you treasure them. Your future hopes and dreams lie with them. They give you options and possibilities.

To have that open to you, to make the huge decision to go through it again, and then to be told no without an explanation is not easy. I would be gutted in the OPs position.

Have you read the full thread? Posters who have more in depth knowledge of egg donation have already said that the donor(biological mother of the any child born as a result of egg donation), can withdraw consent at any time prior to treatment. The added complication is that the people involved here are sisters, so family dynamics come into play. OP has now posted saying she hadn’t seen it from her sister’s POV, so hopefully she can put this to rest.

I fully understand what a amazing thing the ops sister did but that dosnt mean the sister should be dictating how big the ops family is. She shouldn’t have agreed to it if she wasn’t willing to let the op make the decisions about the eggs, even more so because they are sisters, the sister has watched the op go through miscarriages and a still birth and watched her suffer for years, she knows how much having children to her means, now she’s saying well i know I gave you my eggs but I get to choose how many children you have from them.

You don't fully understand, then.

This is so unfair.
You can’t imagine how she feels having a child which is biologically hers being brought up by her sister.

She donated eggs - she hasn't given away a baby! Important to remember that it is the OP who grew and gave birth to that baby and has been raising him.
Also, the time to be thinking about these things is before you offer to donate.
I think the sister does owe the OP an explanation.

The sister has apparently said she sees her nephew and nothing more than a nephew, if this isn’t the case she needs to be honest with the op.

Really? Can you imagine a AIBU? My sister volunteered to donate her eggs to help me have a much wanted baby and she has just told me it was a massive mistake and she wishes it had never happened is she BU?

Lots of people don't get to have the number of children they wanted for also sorts of reasons, infertility, secondary infertility, relationship break down, health issues in one or other parents, health problems in a child, finances etc. Etc. they have to come to terms with that (I wanted three after infertility and miscarriages and IVF I have one so I know that it's not easy but I also know that I have so much more than many people)

Your sister owes you an explanation. These eggs belong to you now and it is massively unfair of her to shift the goal posts now. Ask her outright why. In your position unless I had a really close relationship with my sister I probably would go ahead and use the eggs.

@Ozanj

Your sister owes you an explanation. These eggs belong to you now and it is massively unfair of her to shift the goal posts now. Ask her outright why. In your position unless I had a really close relationship with my sister I probably would go ahead and use the eggs.

I don't think we yet know she's shifting the goalposts.

The OP says she always assumed her sister would be fine with further pregnancies, but they didn't have an explicit conversation about it, and the way the law works, the sister is given the option to revoke consent.

It could perfectly well be that the sister always assumed the OP wouldn't dream of a further pregnancy.

@BlondeRaven First of all, OP already had a child, so wasn’t childless. The rest of your post is just too ridiculous for me to answer and suspect you may be trying to get a rise, so I won’t bother.

@GreyhoundG1rl

Your sister has already said no. Yet your posts are full of "reaching out", "try to resolve things (in your favour, not hers)" and "ask again" just to see if you'll get a different answer. She probably feels totally hounded by you, and your refusal to accept an answer you don't want to hear.

I think you're really misunderstanding what I've been saying. I have reached out to her to resolve the situation of us falling out, not having another transfer done.

First and foremost is to repair the relationship with my sister, even if that means my husband and I don't get to transfer another of our embryos. We're very fortunate to have two healthy babies and that's what we'll focus on.

She has since replied to my apologies for not taking her feelings into account, so fortunately we are starting to build bridges

You need to forget this. It's a huge pity that you didn't discuss it with your sister before. But perhaps the lack of frank discussion was precisely because you knew that you'd asked her for one thing (a much wanted second child ) and that she was likely to cavil at the idea of being the biological mother to multiple children? After all, if you have more than one embryo remaining, how can you even prove to her that you want to stop at three? Why shouldn't you have a fourth or fifth?

I would say all of this if you were 28 and in perfect health for bearing a pregnancy. But 42 (also my own age) is old to become a mother. I was very fertile when I was younger but I'm not sure if I could conceive another child at all now, as perimenopausal symptoms set in. There's a correlation between becoming a mother over 40 naturally and living to an extremely old age. Presumably this is largely because only people who are ageing slowly find themselves still able to conceive in their early-mid 40s! I also have found myself recently having dreams about having another baby (though have never actually wanted a third child). I think you need quietly to grieve your lost fertility (lost much earlier in your case, sadly) along with the rest of us born in the 70s. But only quietly. The real thing to focus on is that you are incredibly lucky, and indebted to your sister, to have two healthy children.

Have you read the full thread? Posters who have more in depth knowledge of egg donation have already said that the donor(biological mother of the any child born as a result of egg donation), can withdraw consent at any time prior to treatment

I'm not sure you read my responses properly? You haven't got any idea of my experience of these issues, to be fair. And I've never said the sister isn't the biological parent but the OP is the legal parent of the child. The sister donated eggs, not a baby.

The sister can withdraw consent at any time, I've never said anything different to that. All I've said is that I can completely understand why that would be very difficult for the OP to deal with.

In the face of a whole thread of people saying the OP is being unreasonable/selfish etc, I have said I understand the OPs shock and sadness at her sister's unexpected response to the OP possibly using the embryos.

The OP has taken the whole situation on board with admirable strength and I hope she and her sister can work through it.

Good luck, @Pouragandt. I'm sorry it's such a very rough situation.

Good that she came back to you so soon, OP. Wishing you all the best. This whole situation must have been really difficult for the both of you. x

I think it is a very difficult situation, and incredibly hard not to honour what your sister has told you or it could really impact your families in the future.

I also want to say that when you have experienced losses, there is often an incredibly strong desire for another child... and then another. There might be something unresolved that it would be worth unpacking whether you go ahead with another pregnancy or not.

@SimonJT

Why wasn’t this covered in counselling before treatment began?

My cousin and her wife were going to use my sperm for IVF and her wifes egg, as part of the process (which I decided against in the end) I was very explicity asked how many live births I imagined happening, how many I would want to happen etc. It was also made explicit at all times that I could remove consent at any time before transfer, including years in the future to make further babies.

This was also discussed in group sessions with me, my cousin and her wife, so I’m really surprised that this hasn’t been properly covered already.

I think most people that have been through it are surprised that discussion of this specific situation wasn't an important factor of embryos being created in the first place.

I know some don't always take the time to properly sit down and talk you through every eventuality but it would be on paper somewhere.

Although I feel for the OP I think the sister has done an amazing thing in donating her eggs in the first place. Personally, and I'm glad I never have had to consider this etc so I know I'm lucky - but I can't really comprehend the idea of having biological children 'out there' that I wasn't mum to or bringing up, at least by choice. I can totally see why even if she'd consented to one she wouldn't want another.

And for the OP it is a really tough process having to decide what to do with those embryos, and I'd argue one that the clinics don't really prepare you for.

OP, really sorry for your past losses and for this future one

[quote Tubbs99]@BlondeRaven First of all, OP already had a child, so wasn’t childless. The rest of your post is just too ridiculous for me to answer and suspect you may be trying to get a rise, so I won’t bother.[/quote]
Where did I say the op didn’t already have a child? I also never suggested it, I said her sister had watched her go through several miscarriages and a still birth, all of which the op says has happened.

As for the rest of my post being ridiculous, why? Because I have a different opinion to you and yours should be the only one that matters… now who is being ridiculous?

What a bizarre question. Have you ever done ivf or egg donation?

When someone donates their eggs the clinic tells the donor how many have been retrieved and how many have fertilised and are viable. The fact that the sister didn't put up a fight and say, "OP can only have one of them and then the rest must be destroyed" implies that the sister knew they were still there sat in the clinic, possibly waiting to be used. It's not inexpensive to cryopreserve embryos either and I'm sure the sister was aware that OP was paying for this for the last 3 years.

@Oscaree

What a bizarre question. Have you ever done ivf or egg donation?

When someone donates their eggs the clinic tells the donor how many have been retrieved and how many have fertilised and are viable. The fact that the sister didn't put up a fight and say, "OP can only have one of them and then the rest must be destroyed" implies that the sister knew they were still there sat in the clinic, possibly waiting to be used. It's not inexpensive to cryopreserve embryos either and I'm sure the sister was aware that OP was paying for this for the last 3 years.

I hope I don't put this insensitively, but I think this is not quite a fair representation.

IME, clinics will tell you to be very cautious drawing conclusions about the likelihood of a successful pregnancy at every stage of treatment. You might have a good number of eggs retrieved, but only half of them fertilised, and only half of those seem viable. Then maybe only half of those are good enough to freeze. Some clinics will encourage you to use the best quality embryo(s) to implant. It's not uncommon to find you thaw the others and, sadly, they don't make it.

No one in their right mind would expect to find out how many eggs were fertilised and viable, and then say 'right, destroy the rest'. You just wouldn't. Even if an embryo is in perfect shape, I believe the chance of pregnancy to term is only about 1 in 3.

So when do you have the conversation? When your sister has a newborn cuddled in her arms?

IME clinics actually make it very easy for you to sign up to paying for storage for long periods without questioning it, so it's not at all weird the OP and her sister may have been at cross purposes without either of them having realised until now.

Exactly, Sarah
Everything is geared towards you getting your successful pregnancy. What happens in the future to any "spare" embryos once you have that isn't really discussed in detail. (I'm not saying that is a good thing).

It's not a good thing at all. But it is easy to see how misunderstandings arise as a result.