Known egg donor stipulating one child only

[Pouragandt]

Gosh, well I've had a bit of a shocker today.

So after several losses following having our healthy daughter 10 years ago, my sister kindly agreed to being mine and my husband's egg donor so that we could try and conceive again. We also used a sperm donor and were blessed with a healthy son 2 years ago.

We have always wanted 3 babies so decided now's the time to try again - we're very fortunate to have 5 good quality frozen embryos from the IVF cycle with my sister's eggs and the sperm donor. I'm 42 so time is of the essence!

I let my sister know yesterday that we were going to do another transfer as soon as possible and she said she feels let down and disappointed that we didn't discuss it with her first.

She then went on to say today that she only went ahead with the egg donation on the assumption that it was for our 'long-awaited second child' and she doesn't want us going again. I'm so upset that I may not have another baby and that I might have to destroy our embryos (after having lost 3 babies in the past; one full term) just to respect my sister's wishes. Am I right in thinking she's being unreasonable?! Please send help! X

[quote PegasusReturns]@Pouragandt

I’m glad you’ve reflected. IME Sisters are amazing and it’d be an absolute tragedy to lose that relationship.

The last baby or not is always tough. After 4 miscarriages and losing a DC I was desperate for baby #5. It didn’t happen and although I was content (how could I not be?!) there was always (will always be?) a gap.

A few years later I need surgery that meant a last baby was impossible. Although by then I’d reconciled to the fact I wouldn’t have another it was still very sad. Take your time to grieve for what could have been and then delight in what you have [/quote]
Thank you and I'm so sorry for your loss

@Neighneigh I'm guessing that this thread has popped up on Active Threads and drawn in people who don't usually post in the Donor Conception board. (Or, in some cases, know anything about the topic, as you rightly point out.)

[quote me4real]@Pouragandt If you used the embryos (which are yours) your sister wouldn't be told. So....you could always have a 'miracle baby.' [/quote]
What ?! So neither the child, or the woman who is that child’s genetic mother would be told ? That is a terrible thing to suggest, completely immoral. Children need to know their origins for a start.

There could be any number of reasons she could be happy to help you have the first child but not a second. She could think three children is wrong for environmental reasons, she might think it's wrong to have a child at your age or with your medical history when you already have children. What I mean is she could have looked at the situation three years ago and been happy to help in those circumstances but your circumstances have changed.

Gosh I'm so sorry for you OP. I don't think you are being particularly selfish to be honest, you sound very thoughtful.

There has either been a miscommunication at the start about what your sister was ok with, or your sister might have previously been ok with the theoretical possibility of 2 children from her donation but it's been harder than expected. Either way she has expressed unhappiness about it - whether that's just the initial surprise speaking or whether she definitely feels that way only she can tell you. I don't really understand why another child from the donation would be something she was against but she must have her reasons.

When you have to use fertility treatment and especially donor treatment to have a baby, and you've experienced losses, things can feel very unnatural and out of control. If someone told me what I could and couldn't do with my own embryos, that I cherished and adored and pinned every hope for my future on, I'd be pretty pissed off - even if I loved the person and was grateful to them.

Have an honest chat with your sister and let her digest the idea. Hopefully after reflection and discussion you can understand each others position a bit better.

Wow
No she is not being unreasonable

I do think if she is refusing consent for some of the reasons suggested here like she thinks 3 is too many or OP is too old, that is really shitty. No one on here can know her reasons for withdrawing consent but the OP has been given a really unnecessarily hard time, in my view.

The embryos are the OPs. Her son is her son.

When you have embryos, whatever their biological source, you treasure them. Your future hopes and dreams lie with them. They give you options and possibilities.

To have that open to you, to make the huge decision to go through it again, and then to be told no without an explanation is not easy. I would be gutted in the OPs position.

I think she is struggling NOW seeing your dd growing as YOUR daughter whilst knowing actually it’s hers,.
That’s why she is feeling differently towards your last child. That’s why she is finding it harder now.

@TooTiredForToday

I do think if she is refusing consent for some of the reasons suggested here like she thinks 3 is too many or OP is too old, that is really shitty. No one on here can know her reasons for withdrawing consent but the OP has been given a really unnecessarily hard time, in my view.

The embryos are the OPs. Her son is her son.

When you have embryos, whatever their biological source, you treasure them. Your future hopes and dreams lie with them. They give you options and possibilities.

To have that open to you, to make the huge decision to go through it again, and then to be told no without an explanation is not easy. I would be gutted in the OPs position.

But the right to use the embryos is not the OP's.

Worrying about age (for example) isn't trivial. One of the things you're told to prepare for around donation is how you will feel if the pregnancy does not work out as planned. Obviously everyone hopes things will be fine, but if not, the OP's sister has perfect right to take that into account. It's a weird emotional tightrope to be very biologically invested in a pregnancy while never crossing the line into letting that investment cross over into too much emotional/social investment. It has to be for the donor to decide where their limits are.

I really feel for you, you're between a rock and hard place.

I don't think you're being selfish at all. Your sister donated a set number of eggs so you were led to believe they were for your use. Clearly she didn't specify a limit (or they would have been destroyed) AND you've paid for them to be preserved all of this time, which she will also have known about. What did she think you were going to do with them? Just keep them in the freezer forever?

Yes, I agree with other posters that your sister has been very generous, but she is also limiting your family and if she had been honest about how many children she was happy for you to have with her eggs in the first place, I'm sure that you would have chosen an anonymous donor.

You're in such a difficult position and I really feel for you. I'm so sorry for the loss of your baby and for your infertility. You have been robbed of the freedom to choose how and when to have a family and it is such a horrible, unfair experience that people who have never been through it will never understand the pain and horrendous grief it causes.

Whatever happens, I hope you can maintain a good relationship with your sister. Be kind to yourself.

@Persipan you're right, it popped up on Active which is how I saw it but....just argghhh at people, really. The only thing op can do is talk to her sister and leave her to make a decision.

if she had been honest about how many children she was happy for you to have with her eggs in the first place, I'm sure that you would have chosen an anonymous donor

@Oscaree having an opinion about a theoretical situation is very different from living with an actual situation.

@Oscaree

I really feel for you, you're between a rock and hard place.

I don't think you're being selfish at all. Your sister donated a set number of eggs so you were led to believe they were for your use. Clearly she didn't specify a limit (or they would have been destroyed) AND you've paid for them to be preserved all of this time, which she will also have known about. What did she think you were going to do with them? Just keep them in the freezer forever?

Yes, I agree with other posters that your sister has been very generous, but she is also limiting your family and if she had been honest about how many children she was happy for you to have with her eggs in the first place, I'm sure that you would have chosen an anonymous donor.

You're in such a difficult position and I really feel for you. I'm so sorry for the loss of your baby and for your infertility. You have been robbed of the freedom to choose how and when to have a family and it is such a horrible, unfair experience that people who have never been through it will never understand the pain and horrendous grief it causes.

Whatever happens, I hope you can maintain a good relationship with your sister. Be kind to yourself.

Thank you for your kind words; they mean a lot x

@TooTiredForToday

I do think if she is refusing consent for some of the reasons suggested here like she thinks 3 is too many or OP is too old, that is really shitty. No one on here can know her reasons for withdrawing consent but the OP has been given a really unnecessarily hard time, in my view.

The embryos are the OPs. Her son is her son.

When you have embryos, whatever their biological source, you treasure them. Your future hopes and dreams lie with them. They give you options and possibilities.

To have that open to you, to make the huge decision to go through it again, and then to be told no without an explanation is not easy. I would be gutted in the OPs position.

Thank you for understanding x

@TooTiredForToday

Gosh I'm so sorry for you OP. I don't think you are being particularly selfish to be honest, you sound very thoughtful.

There has either been a miscommunication at the start about what your sister was ok with, or your sister might have previously been ok with the theoretical possibility of 2 children from her donation but it's been harder than expected. Either way she has expressed unhappiness about it - whether that's just the initial surprise speaking or whether she definitely feels that way only she can tell you. I don't really understand why another child from the donation would be something she was against but she must have her reasons.

When you have to use fertility treatment and especially donor treatment to have a baby, and you've experienced losses, things can feel very unnatural and out of control. If someone told me what I could and couldn't do with my own embryos, that I cherished and adored and pinned every hope for my future on, I'd be pretty pissed off - even if I loved the person and was grateful to them.

Have an honest chat with your sister and let her digest the idea. Hopefully after reflection and discussion you can understand each others position a bit better.

Thank you for your kind words and understanding x

Worrying about age (for example) isn't trivial

Yes, for your OWN family. The OPs sister has had the chance to plan and have her own family in the way she wants. The OP is trying to plan and have her family and with no warning or explanation has been told no.

If your sibling told you not to have children (and therefore you actually couldn't) because of X, Y or Z lifestyle reason, would you really think that was OK and shrug and go along with it?

We don't actually know the sister's reasoning, and I am not saying the sister is in the wrong, but she donated the eggs, she knew there would be multiple embryos and that could lead to multiple children. To control that now, at this stage, with no prior warning, must be really hard for the OP.

I hope you and your sister work it out.

You are incredibly lucky to have a sister, who loves you so much she gave you a child, two lovely children and your health. I’m glad you’re looking at the positives rather than what you don’t have. And I agree therapy would be really useful for you to process your losses and come to terms with your need to have another child.

I haven't read the whole thread, but I think your sister is being massively unreasonable. I offered to donate to a friend and the sessions I had covered this scenario quite clearly. As it turned out she had other complications that meant she wouldn't be able to physically carry a child which was heartbreaking for us all.

Assuming 3 kids has always been your plan your sister likely knew this so it shouldn't be a surprise.

I think talking to her about why she feels like this is a good place to start. Legally you don't need to discuss it with her or even consider her feelings. As has been pointed out legally the embryos are yours.

Do you think she would discuss counselling sessions?

@Terminallysleepdeprived

I haven't read the whole thread, but I think your sister is being massively unreasonable. I offered to donate to a friend and the sessions I had covered this scenario quite clearly. As it turned out she had other complications that meant she wouldn't be able to physically carry a child which was heartbreaking for us all.

Assuming 3 kids has always been your plan your sister likely knew this so it shouldn't be a surprise.

I think talking to her about why she feels like this is a good place to start. Legally you don't need to discuss it with her or even consider her feelings. As has been pointed out legally the embryos are yours.

Do you think she would discuss counselling sessions?

This is so unfair. You can’t imagine how she feels having a child which is biologically hers being brought up by her sister.

"She said yes last time so I didn't bother getting consent the next time"

Can you imagine how that sounds if you apply that in other situations? This isn't just going into your sisters wardrobe and borrowing a few clothes. You were planning to use her dna and create another living person. A person who one day may find out where they came from and hold her responsible. A person who she will have to see all the time. I imagine she just feels totally disrespected and violated.

You seem to focus on the story of how you have lost babies, which is terrible for anyone. However you have had two babies, which a childless woman is out there dreaming of, who does not have a superhero sister to basically take out a part of herself and hand it over.

Even if it is her husband who is not happy about it. Then your sister has a right to prioritize her life and happiness with her husband. She has already given you so much. And he has the right to not want another mini version of his wife wandering around. I would feel the same if it was my dh donating sperm to his brother. Once I could possibly come to terms with but it would be hard. Twice - no I draw the line. Because my own kids are one day going to find out their cousins are their siblings and it's going to fuck with their heads. I'd want to limit the damage as much as possible.

You keep referring to your eggs. THEY ARE NOT YOUR EGGS.

I'm sorry it sounds harsh, I'm not one to go this heavy on threads, especially fertility ones, but this has to be the most entitled behavior between siblings I've ever encountered.

Your sister has already said no. Yet your posts are full of "reaching out", "try to resolve things (in your favour, not hers)" and "ask again" just to see if you'll get a different answer.
She probably feels totally hounded by you, and your refusal to accept an answer you don't want to hear.

@TooTiredForToday

Worrying about age (for example) isn't trivial

Yes, for your OWN family. The OPs sister has had the chance to plan and have her own family in the way she wants. The OP is trying to plan and have her family and with no warning or explanation has been told no.

If your sibling told you not to have children (and therefore you actually couldn't) because of X, Y or Z lifestyle reason, would you really think that was OK and shrug and go along with it?

We don't actually know the sister's reasoning, and I am not saying the sister is in the wrong, but she donated the eggs, she knew there would be multiple embryos and that could lead to multiple children. To control that now, at this stage, with no prior warning, must be really hard for the OP.

I don't agree at all.

It is not remotely like a sibling having an opinion in this case.

It's really emotionally complicated to donate eggs; there's a lot of research into it. It must be extremely hard to steel yourself to feel all sorts of contradictory emotions - you have to be both glad the pregnancy works out, while also not tipping over into feeling so emotionally attached you start thinking of the baby as your baby. A miscarriage in that situation must be extraordinarily difficult.

It is very bad that the clinic didn't prepare the OP and her sister better, and they really should have done, and of course I agree with that. But we can't exclude the possibility the sister had taken the legal position on board and had never intended to consent to further pregnancies.

Your sister donated a set number of eggs so you were led to believe they were for your use.

Where on earth do you get this from?

@pongo101 legally they are her eggs, the sister would have had to sign a release that made the op the legal owner in order for them to be used the first time around. Legally she doesn't have to consult her sister or consider her feelings. Morally she maybe should but legally she has no obligation