Known egg donor stipulating one child only

[Pouragandt]

Gosh, well I've had a bit of a shocker today.

So after several losses following having our healthy daughter 10 years ago, my sister kindly agreed to being mine and my husband's egg donor so that we could try and conceive again. We also used a sperm donor and were blessed with a healthy son 2 years ago.

We have always wanted 3 babies so decided now's the time to try again - we're very fortunate to have 5 good quality frozen embryos from the IVF cycle with my sister's eggs and the sperm donor. I'm 42 so time is of the essence!

I let my sister know yesterday that we were going to do another transfer as soon as possible and she said she feels let down and disappointed that we didn't discuss it with her first.

She then went on to say today that she only went ahead with the egg donation on the assumption that it was for our 'long-awaited second child' and she doesn't want us going again. I'm so upset that I may not have another baby and that I might have to destroy our embryos (after having lost 3 babies in the past; one full term) just to respect my sister's wishes. Am I right in thinking she's being unreasonable?! Please send help! X

Just adding my thoughts, my sister wasn't able to have a second child, i did begin ti think through scenarios where I "helped". I realised i couldn't in case the resultant baby was a girl, as I had had three boys it would have been hard.
Maybe your sister was a bit relieved your second was a boy too and would find it tricky if your third was a girl, this thought might have become more prominent recently.

@MrsHuntGeneNotJeremyObviously

*This is so unfair. You can’t imagine how she feels having a child which is biologically hers being brought up by her sister.*

She donated eggs - she hasn't given away a baby! Important to remember that it is the OP who grew and gave birth to that baby and has been raising him.
Also, the time to be thinking about these things is before you offer to donate.
I think the sister does owe the OP an explanation.

The sister did an amazing thing and went above and beyond to donate her eggs for OP to have a second child. Perhaps she is finding itharder than she thought she would to watch someone else raise a child which is biologically hers. I honestly can’t imagine how that must feel. Maybe she’s not willing to have this conversation with OP for fear of hurting their relationship but she doesn’t want to go through the trauma again. Maybe there are other reasons. We don’t know. Her wishes should just be respected. She’s already done and amazing, selfless act of kindness.

First and foremost is to repair the relationship with my sister, even if that means my husband and I don't get to transfer another of our embryos.

Even if . . . she's already told you she won't give her blessing for this. You still seek this end. You minimise and gloss over - you appear to have had a life-threatening situation with your last pregnancy ('narrowly escaped' having an emergency hysterectomy), you have 2 healthy children here, you want another to be a playmate to your child and make up for imaginary number of children you think you should have present - and are still focusing on another pregnancy and child.

You're in a very unhealthy place. Please see a counsellor rather than continuing to focus on winning your sister round to get your way

On threads about surrogacy, the genetic mother is very much viewed as not the 'real' mother since she isn't the one who grows and births the baby. And in surrogacy cases, the genetic mother hasn't signers over her ownership of that genetic material to the surrogate mother. But the law states it is the surrogate who is considered the 'real' mum. Yet here, the OP is being treated as if her sister has actually given her a baby. Either the woman who grows the baby is the mum or she isn't, but it seems unfair to the OP to imply that her role in producing her son is less than that of the person who donated DNA.
The sister has donated generic material, which the OP as a sibling would share anyway. It was a nice thing to do and I'm not trying to undervalue what it would have entailed for the sister to physically do it, but I don't think, (having made an informed choice to donate) that she should have complete say over the remaining embryos and the OP have no say at all. The embryos are a shared endeavour, they are potential human life and the OP feels attachment. She didn't discard them after her baby was born. I think she does have a right to a proper explanation and the right to disagree if it turned out that the sister's reasons were to do with lifestyle judgements or any other reason where it wouldn't be appropriate for a sibling to decide their sister's size of family.
I'm also not saying she should just go ahead (if it comes across that way) because the relationship with her sister is her priority, but I think the OP has a right to a proper discussion

No one has a right to a baby.

That's very glib but people do have rights to their embryos

@MrsHuntGeneNotJeremyObviously

On threads about surrogacy, the genetic mother is very much viewed as not the 'real' mother since she isn't the one who grows and births the baby. And in surrogacy cases, the genetic mother hasn't signers over her ownership of that genetic material to the surrogate mother. But the law states it is the surrogate who is considered the 'real' mum. Yet here, the OP is being treated as if her sister has actually given her a baby. Either the woman who grows the baby is the mum or she isn't, but it seems unfair to the OP to imply that her role in producing her son is less than that of the person who donated DNA. The sister has donated generic material, which the OP as a sibling would share anyway. It was a nice thing to do and I'm not trying to undervalue what it would have entailed for the sister to physically do it, but I don't think, (having made an informed choice to donate) that she should have complete say over the remaining embryos and the OP have no say at all. The embryos are a shared endeavour, they are potential human life and the OP feels attachment. She didn't discard them after her baby was born. I think she does have a right to a proper explanation and the right to disagree if it turned out that the sister's reasons were to do with lifestyle judgements or any other reason where it wouldn't be appropriate for a sibling to decide their sister's size of family. I'm also not saying she should just go ahead (if it comes across that way) because the relationship with her sister is her priority, but I think the OP has a right to a proper discussion

It must be nice to be able to live your life without bothering with how other people feel about things.

I haven't said the sister isn't entitled to her feelings, but the OP is entitled to hers too. I don't think it's reasonable if the sister says no and the OP is expected accept that without question as the sister's right and to discard the embryos as if they don't matter to the OP.

No- one is saying the op can't question it.
Is there a number of embryos at which you think the sister should be allowed to say "no more, please", or is that number solely determined by the unpredictable result of the egg harvesting procedure, ie as many as she produces and the birth mother wants?

I wish I could agree Sarah. I have used 3 ivf clinics. Everyone told me I would get pregnant and never expressed any caution. I was just repeatedly told, "It's a numbers game" and "We'll get there". I have spent enough for a large house deposit. I did finally get there with DE and the embryos that are cryopreserved are mine. I couldn't imagine the donor coming back and saying, "That's enough now". They were gifted to me and she knew that at the time. I appreciate this situation is different because it involves family, but it still feels incredibly unfair for OP.

@BillMasheen

I’d urge you to have some counselling to look at this urge to have another.

As a total stranger it seems unwise at best. You are older, have had losses and complications, you are risking your life/health to provide a sibling. … to what end? This third baby will be a person in its own right, not just a playmate for an existing child.

I’m one of three. It’s not always a good dynamic if I’m honest. For every family where a third just adds to the joy, there are situations like mine where not only did I not get on with my little sister, it trashed the relationship with my other sibling too.

This is true, siblings don't always get on and you should never assume this would be the case: I rarely see my oldest brother, we don't ring and chat, we don't communicate other than the obligatory Christmas/birthday/change of address card. We just don't have ANYTHING in common. My sister's two are just a year apart and HATE being lumped together they are such different personalities. My mother and her older brother never had anything in common (but he was very 'High Church' and always acted superior to her, which she hated), in his later years she used to endure lunch out for his birhtday (lived nearby) but that was it.

I've a big gap - and find it's very easy to acquire a same-age playmate for the afternoon - who then goes home. There are huge bonuses in having the small baby stage done and dusted.

They kind of are Hoover. Prevailing opinion on this thread is that sister says no, it's her DNA so just accept it. Asking for an explanation or a discussion is perceived as potentially pressuring her sister to change her mind. But I don't think it's that straightforward - there will be emotional attachment to those embryos by the OP. She clearly views them as hers, which is why she was going to go ahead and didn't ask her sister first.
So I think there has to be honest communication and the OP should be allowed to question her sister's pov without being told to shut up and be grateful and that the embryos aren't really hers anyway. Without being allowed to honestly talk about this to her sister I think their relationship will be damaged even if OP did exactly as her sister wanted without question.

For environmental reasons I wouldn't want to donate eggs to a couple that had 2 children not that I want any children for that reason. So really nobody has a right to children.

@MrsHuntGeneNotJeremyObviously I think you are just determined to not see it from the sisters POV . When she donated the eggs the OP had a child and she obviously ( because she has said so) donated on the basis of the OP producing a sibling for that child , she donated more than 1 egg because it may have taken multiple tries to get that 1 live birth . Had her sister gone to her originally being a parent of 2 children and asked her to donate eggs so she could have a third child it’s very likely that the sister would never have donated . How is that difficult to understand .

It's a very tough situation and no wonder you're so disappointed OP.. but I feel strongly your sister's wishes must be respected. She did you the ultimate "good deed" the first time, and that's the only reason you have the option now.

You're blessed to have 2 children, and it's been possible because of her. Don't make her regret her kindness by ignoring her when she's had enough.

It's not the same thing at all though Floral These embryos already exist.
In all honesty I don't really know why the sister would object unless she has not told the OP the truth about struggling with knowing there's a child which is genetically hers, being raised by her sister. I would totally appreciate the sister's perspective if this is the case. If it's to do with the sister's DH or judgement of OPs age, as some posters have thought it might be, then imo the OP has a right to not accept a blanket no without discussion.
I just think there are two women here, whose wishes are equally important and who both see the embryos as theirs. It's not for one to say yes or no without honest discussion of the reasons. I think this is important for their future relationship.

I do think that if you donating eggs then you do give up ownership of them. If this doesn't sit well, then donation isn't for you. Once it's been done, if you change your mind you do owe an honest explanation to the recipient because they've made life decisions on the basis of what you initially agreed. I do think it's terrible that what happened to the remaining embryos was not covered in the counselling beforehand.

@MrsHuntGeneNotJeremyObviously yes but in my scenario above it explains why they exist and if you can’t understand that there is little point in continuing to try and explain it .

I do understand why they exist Floral, I just don't quite understand why the sister would object to them being used for another baby since they do exist. I think the sister should explain her reasons. Presumably the sister was aware that the OP was continuing to pay for them to be stored? From my own pov, if I'd donated to my sister, I wouldn't care if she used one or all of the resulting embryos - ifbi was happy for her to have one baby from my dna, why would I object if she had two? The sister isn't being asked to undergo uncomfortable treatment to facilitate another baby. That's the bit I don't really get.
Unless it does come down to regret. Which is something I would understand but still think needs to be talked about between sisters who are obviously close.

I'm amazed with all the people taking the sisters side. I think she's been mean and frankly weird. Not wanting to go through egg donation again would be understandable (been there!), but this is no cost to her, and it means so much to you.
I can't understand why she feels that way. If you were trying to have 10 and couldn't look after them that might be one thing, but 3 is hardly the same!
Legally she can withdraw consent, but frankly I'd go ahead asap if I were you, and just not tell the clinic. Also, don't tell your family or anyone until your way in.
Are your parents still alive? Can they tell your sister to stop being an unreasonable selfish bitch?
I really hope you are able to have a third.

but this is no cost to her

If you truly believe that, maybe you should sit down and consider more carefully the emotional and psychological work needed to be ok with effectively having an baby with your BIL, having a biological child that is not your own, and watching it grow up on someone else’s family.

Many many people could not do it.

@TatianaBis
But it's only eggs! She throws millions away every month, unless she's got rid of them already.
I have on DC with my eggs and donor sperm. The frosties with which I hope to make a couple of siblings are mine. I paid for them; I'm paying hundreds each year to store them; the end. If the donor didn't like the fact then he shouldn't have donated. I'd be devastated if I couldn't have another/couldn't have another with same genetic parents as my DC.
Frankly, my feelings (and OPs) trump that of a donor from years who knew what they were doing.
For OP, this is her only way of having a child with a genetic link to her, her other children, and in view of her age quite possibly at all. The sister is nasty.

[quote Floralnomad]@MrsHuntGeneNotJeremyObviously I think you are just determined to not see it from the sisters POV . When she donated the eggs the OP had a child and she obviously ( because she has said so) donated on the basis of the OP producing a sibling for that child , she donated more than 1 egg because it may have taken multiple tries to get that 1 live birth . Had her sister gone to her originally being a parent of 2 children and asked her to donate eggs so she could have a third child it’s very likely that the sister would never have donated . How is that difficult to understand .[/quote]
To clarify, my sister didn't say to me at the time she was donating to have one child - this only came to light this week

But they’re not eggs are they if they’re carried to term - they’re a baby. Her sister’s baby in fact.

If your donor was anonymous it’s a completely different situation.

Many donor-conceived individuals would still see your sister as the mother, and you as the adopted mother (biological aunt). It's something to consider as you navigate this w/ your sister - that it's not just the two of you, but also the children of the arrangement.

I think the moral of this story - and I feel badly for all parties involved - is that donating your eggs is not a fairy tale. I've advised my DDs to never, never do it.

It's not her sister's baby. It's the sister's DNA, which is shared with the OP anyway, but it is the OP's baby - she has grown and given birth to and will raise the child.