IVF for a girl

[Squirrelscanswim]

A few questions ...

I want a girl SO much and being totally honest with myself I think this is so much my preference that I would worry about bonding with a boy.

So, has anyone had IVF for a girl? I know it's not done in this country - America?

I haven't mentioned shopping, in fact.

You possibly have a fair point Mungo and it's certainly made me nod, in parts. Although again, there's the acknowledgement - yes, there's something not quite right there, but then what do you actually DO about it? (Therapy: I know, but I just don't think it's for me.)

IVF is awful certainly but awful potentially resulting in something that could bring me extraordinary happiness.

I have Cool and liked it - I liked the book too :)

Sometimes you do just need to take the bull by the horns but yes, certainly it's not a pink and glitter shopping thing, it's something far deeper than that. So deep I can't actually see if, just flickers, like a fast fish in clear water.

Or you and your child horrendous and irreversable pain...

Cooljazz... Yes Room!! Sat there howling my eyes out... totally brilliant portrayal
of the sheer beauty of a mum/son relationship and bond. So much else of what you say is very true. OP please watch it.

Yes I know offred, you have made your feelings plain. But I am afraid that is a risk whatever I do. And I am not prepared to argue with you about it, to be honest. We disagree: that's fine. I strongly disagree when people have four, five, six children and have to have them sharing rooms. It's my view but I don't stroll onto the larger families board and start informing them all of my view because that would be bloody rude, and unhelpful.

I get the feeling some people aren't reading my posts :)

I get that you don't feel that therapy is right for you, however it seems like something really important to address before a child arrives. I think that most, if not all, fertility centres offer counselling and it's possibly a really important thing for you to try out just to make sure that you're doing the right thing for both you and a future child. And even if you feel unable to address any deeper issues that you may have, talking to someone from a clinic may just enable you to make informed decisions around what you'd do with your embryos should they be male or how you'd cope if the ivf failed or if you miscarried a female fetus. Going in mentally prepared about all of the scenarios will help you in the long run. I truly believe that.

And yes, there is potential for ivf to bring a hell of a lot of joy but it can also bring a hell of a lot of heartache. I just wanted to make sure that you're aware of that because it's so easy to get tangled up in the cycle of hope that any failure can be utterly crushing. Speaking from experience here. Two rounds of ivf, one miscarriage, one utter failure has terrified me of hoping enough to try again. I just want to stress the importance of preparation for ivf, so do believe that talking to someone about that will help to prepare you.

Well less my feelings and more an actual palpable reality that you should consider.

Not sure it is very consistent to be opposed to sharing a room but have a tiny flat or dismiss the much greater issues associated with being a gender selected child either! Sharing rooms is at worst not ideal!!!

You don't really get a baby girl or boy though, at least not for long, you get a person with their own personality and they will test your limits at times.

I think why people are concerned are that if you are so desperate about such a small part of a child what will you do when they disappoint you in other ways? Parenting a boy is the same as parenting a girl, apart from the nappy changing/toilet training. One of the first things you have to give up is your picture of how it will be, because it will be so much better and so much worse.

Having a child has held a mirror up to my best and worst but the most wonderful moments are when I see the person emerging. Accepting your child for who they are is a fundamental part of parenting and you need to find a way to do this whoever and whatever they are. They're not there to fulfil you but to be the next generation.

Also, I am the youngest of a very large family, shared a bedroom and had a very happy childhood and learned to share so it's not all bad.

Offred, you do realise that moving house is something that happens all the time, yes? Sorry to sound snarky, but honestly.

Mungo, I didn't mean to sound critical of anybody, my meaning was more illustrative to explain that I wasn't finding posts angled in a particular way very helpful, the opposite in fact.

I have had counselling via a fertility centre before and in all truth and honesty it is not up to much. It was more an hour of telling me things that I already knew, and being charged £50 for the privilege!

Well yes you could move house.

You are very defensive and quite aggressive when faced with the normal questions and concerns that you will face a lifetime of if you do this.

You would also be going into parenting with a whole raft of issues that you don't have a grip on re your own childhood and parents and relationships.

You'd also be going through ivf which is one of the most difficult and stressful things you can do.

All those things make the chances of this actually making you happy vanishingly small IMO.

I didn't think you'd come across as critical at all, I was just being a bit cheeky.

It seems that you've tried to get help with your concerns and perhaps you haven't found the right counsellor to help, but I get in a way where you may be coming from in that how many do you try to find the right one.

One thing I'm wondering is did you discuss your urge for only a daughter with the fertility clinic's therapist at all? Apologies if this is being nosey and you don't wish to answer, just trying to understand the whole picture if you get me?

I'm not being aggressive intentionally Offred - I'm politely trying to explain I am finding your posts unhelpful, and unfair, as for the most part they are asking me to respond to hypothetical situations that may emerge in the future.

I apologise if I have been defensive and aggressive. At the same time I would appreciate it if you could consider moving on now. I think we won't agree, whether I decide to go ahead or not I have no issue with other people deciding to select the sex of their child, you do. OK - that's life, but I don't see anything to be gained in going around in circles on the topic.

I didn't Mungo, but then it's only quite recently I've really started giving serious consideration to it all again. Plus, it wasn't really an "opening up" counselling session, more "you must be aware of these things". I think calling it counselling is misleading really.

Also agree you are being very defensive and not considering anything anyone really says. Decide if you want a child- nothing more than that. You are very unwilling to truly deal with the issues you have with men/boys- what on earth would this do to a daughter you might have? Already she wouldn't ever have a father in her life, but to then have a mother raising her who clearly has issues with men and is uncomfortable around them would be hugely damaging. In order to have any shot at being a decent parent, please get some help in dealing with these issues before going for IVF- and then if you are fortunate enough to get pregnant, focus on being the best mum you can, not on the wish list of me,me,me demands you have in your future child.

I am considering some posts very carefully, in fact.

OP, are you actually a writer or a journalist or similar? Because you keep talking about this hypothetical situation, it is abundantly clear that you haven't done much research into gender selection at all, you are dismissive of any input from anyone, all of which make me think that this isn't actually you who wants a daughter through gender selection. You in fact seem utterly detached.

Squirrel have you tried DBT?

I don't think it is possible for people to give you helpful replies. People's honest opinions and reminders of ethics is not what you want to hear. Please reconsider more counselling.

WnnaBe you're correct I haven't done much research into gender selection. Asking here, was a start. No, I'm certainly not a journalist. I think journalists tend to take existing threads rather than make new ones up.

In fact, I'm not dismissive at all. I have acknowledged some posters and posts have made very good, very salient points - the problem is that while the points in themselves may be true, solving them (as it were) isn't necessarily straightforward or even possible. Other posts I have just found to be unhelpful and have tried to explain so directly but politely. If I haven't been, then I apologise.

I really don't wish to go to counselling. I'm sorry if this offends but I think it's a waste of both time and money, both of which I value :)

You may well be right, perhaps the clinics are far too prescriptive in that they have their own agenda regarding how they feel is the right way to prepare you. Perhaps clinics which do offer sex selection would be of more help to you.

Of course you'd need to do some more research around the sex selection process, and you'd need that before going ahead with anything.

My big concern was merely making sure that you're aware of and prepared for the trials of ivf and the what ifs regarding the gamble of sex selection and ivf together.

Well, what is to be gained, as I said before is you getting a glimpse of a part of the potential reality of making that choice.

It is not something you should dismiss, the actual real risk you will impose this as a sentence on the child. If you aren't willing to even think about things being like that you won't cope if they turn out like that.

It is important to make an informed choice and it really irrelevant what our different views are on the particular issue but relevant that the majority view is different from yours which makes it more than slightly likely that most people will judge you and the child and that the child herself will be unhappy with it.

It isn't the same as saying 'oh but anything could happen' because you are making a conscious choice that goes against what the vast majority of people think is right and which yes, could mean having to answer to social services.

But offred - sorry - you are speaking to me as if a) IVF to select the sex is something I have decided to do, without any shadow of a doubt and b) that because YOU disagree with it, I am a bad person for merely contemplating it.

That's why I don't think there's anything more to be gained from discussing it, as we just do not agree.

Mungo, I'm not sure. I think the problem is as you rightly identify clinics have their own agenda which is if we aren't honest to make money. That's why regardless of my suitability to be a parent, they would happily treat me, if they thought a successful pregnancy was a likely outcome.

It's not something I plan on rushing into of course (as evidenced by six years later ...!) but sometimes thinking about something and posting about it is a good way of establishing your own position on something and also identifying why you feel a certain way, and I do think your post on page 6 was an excellent one, so thanks for that.

I have not said I think you are a bad person for considering it. I am pointing out some of the potential negative consequences if you decide to do it.

If you have taken it as though you are being called 'a bad person' then that is coming from something inside you.

I don't even really believe in 'bad people' but I do think some things are negative or wrong behaviours.