Should I do more to get ex to DD's performance?

[Sprogonthetyne]

DD(6) is learning an instrument and has her first end of term proformance next week. When we've talked about it I've said I can wait to see her band and when she's asked if dad's going, I've just said "I don't know, you'll have to ask him".

I've reminded DD to ask/invited her dad before phone calls or visits and she said she did last contact. Apparently dad said he'd "probably be there", but didn't contact me to ask date/time or anything else. As this is the earliest event, I thought maybe he didn't realise it was so soon so I've sent over a copy of the kids calendar for December, showing the dates of all the Christmas/end of term events (5 between 2 kids), but still nothing to say if he's going to any of them.

Should I push it further or leave the ball in his court?

God low bar. Your partner sounds lazy and feckless.

I know! Why do women accept this?!

He needs to do his own thinking. My husband and l both work full time, magically l can still remember stuff and so can he. But l refuse to do all the planning and organising. If we were ever to split then l wouldn't be prompting him then either

I agree with the 'not reminding'. Yes children should have two engaged parents but if one of them can't do the bare minimum, like checking the calendar they've been sent for the December events, then it shouldn't be on the other to remind them.

Will it be disappointing for the child, yes, but there's no guarantee the other parent would turn up if a reminder was sent.

We're all adults, we should all be able to get our shit together.

Don’t remind him. He’s your ex. I’m divorced and I would do no more than share the info. The rest is up to him.

What is better for your 6 year old? Do whatever that is.

Honestly, this is more than enough. He actually needs to fail at something in order to learn. Otherwise you'll be his PA forever.
So do not remind him of these things. And let him fail at this or at something else, and then he will learn the hard way.
My ex used to forget to add shit to his calendar and missed a parent's evening once. I said nothing. Not my problem. I was there. I got the info. I know he was annoyed as the DC told me but I am not his secretary and he has access to all the info I do.

At 6 it is too young to make dd responsible. Couldn't you just send him a message with the details

He's had a message with the calendar showing the details. DD's "job" was only to tell him that she wants him to be there.

Just knowing the event is happening won't necessarily be enough to make him think of attending. There are 5 different events between the two DC, and ex is not likely to go to all of them. He might go to one or two (which is an improvement on the zero he went to while we were together). So getting DD to talk to him about this particular one was so that he would realise it was important to her, which might compel him to go.

I'll try again, although I doubt you'll hear me.
Your daughter is 6y.o. She should NOT be the one asking her dad to come see her concert - not if you want her to grow up with secure MH and go on to have healthy relationships.

Imagine she did tell him, as you asked. And he is disorganised, not great parent, etc - everything you think of him. And you are on your high horse of - "why should I remind him, he has the calendar".....
Result - he does not come.

Impact on you: You are confirmed in believing that he is not a great individual. Hurray...

Impact on your 6yo: Daddy does not love me. I do not matter. Something is wrong with me. -> That is in the short term.
In the long term these accumulate and there is no saying how this will affect her relationships with men. May not be able to trust them; or develop an anxious attachment style; etc.

You have many years of divorced co-parenting. You need to be an adult and think about protecting your daughter from the negatives of divorce - at least the ones that are as simple as sending an email reminder.

My ex became a better parent after divorce - but it took time. He used to miss all of their events when they were smaller. By the time they were in secondary - he realised what it all meant and stared to make a lot more effort.
Yes - in a way it annoyed me that he could have been a better parent back in the day when we were together. But it is better for the kids that they have a healthy relationship with their father (- who I still despise, but it's my issue, not theirs...)

Impact on your 6yo: Daddy does not love me. I do not matter. Something is wrong with me. -> That is in the short term.
In the long term these accumulate and there is no saying how this will affect her relationships with men. May not be able to trust them; or develop an anxious attachment style; etc.

This is by no means a certainty.

Clear, honest, kind communication with children and assurance from the parent who does care enough to show up can mean the child is able to grow up with a clear-sighted view of people, rather than a distorted impression of an inherently selfish father who is being stage-managed behind the scenes.

My kids are confident in themselves and recognise that their father’s failure to show up for them as his failure, not theirs. They get on all right with him but they know his limitations and aren’t being constantly disappointed by hoping for better than what he is likely to deliver.

Exactly. It has to be managed carefully, but I think being honest with the DCs (within reason, you can sugar coat it a bit) is more important. They will eventually learn that their DM is the person they can count on.

Or the DF will step up and they will be better off than if he hadn’t been pushed to do so.

This is more where my thinking is.

My older child (9) has had 5 years of school plays etc, without seeing his dad there once. It doesn't even occur to DS that his dad might be there, so he doesn't feel any disappointment when he isn't. I suspect if DD was slightly older she would be the same, but this is her first batch of Christmas events.

If I push him to go now, then is it going to be even more upsetting for her if he reverts to form in a few years time, having set up that expectation.

Don’t even put her in the position of asking him to attend.

If he has access to the information through the school or the activity provider, you need to do nothing. He is just as capable of reading the school emails and looking at the school calendar. If he only has access to the information through you, then forward the information once.

You could also use a joint online calendar. It’s not a necessity, but the information is there for your benefit and if he happens to benefit as well it does you no harm and may help your child. The downside is if you fall behind in updating he may use it to blame you for missing something. The upside is that he could also add things.

@Sprogonthetyne

You seem to think that your 6yo is and adult and should be able to make conclusions that an adult would make.

My mom back in the day thought like you do. My father was absent, etc. It definitely impacted how I was in relationships - took me years to understand how deep the impact was.

Your son didn’t have his father at school events before divorce. This is a different situation to what your daughter is going through.

Not only - there is a major change in her life, that she can not properly understand/process.
But also - you told het to ask her father to come. IF he doesn’t - she will of course tae it as rejection. Any little girl would, at that age.

In your place - I’d remind him this time. And next year NOT involve the kids in communicating the schedule.

So, am I right in understanding that as an adult you think your mother should have nagged and chased and reminded your father in an attempt to get him to show up for you, and because he didn’t show up of his own accord, your self-esteem problems are in part your mother’s fault?

Ridiculous - poor mum who probably did her best & yet is still blamed for the crap dad!

OK, but when she asks me if dad is coming, what can I say other the "I don't know, you'll have to ask him"?

You say - ‘I know you want your dad there. i passed on the concert information to him - hope he comes’. You hug her and say you know it’s difficult with the new setup - but she needn’t worry - adults can sort out logistics without making it hard for her.

This removes the layer of her feeling she is responsible for managing her father. And it does not put her in the position of taking it as personally - where SHE asks and HE does not show up. If he in fact does not.

Look - if she were a teen - of course you wouldn't need to do it. But she is small, and divorce is recent.

Did I say I blamed my mother?
I was commenting to the posts saying the little girl should be able to understand that she has a crap father who can’t be bothered to show up - and not take it personally. And that it shouldn’t affect her.

A 6yo is not mature to understand. And of course she’ll take it personally. And it will affect her in the long term.

Kids can come through divorce with varying degree of damage. Least damage is when parents co-parent amicably - without lingering conflict and resentment. And in this situation - a parent won’t be asking if reminding the other parent is anything other than prioritising their little daughter’s needs.

@Sprogonthetyne - I know it’s hard. I am also divorced. But it’s not only about you. Why not do something that you know will increase the chance that your DD will be happy at het first concert?

Nobody said the child won’t be affected by her father not showing up. Of course she will be sad. But if she is supported through it by an attentive and caring parent then there is every chance she won’t be affected long term by it.

It is not an instant understanding, it evolves over time. I can see my kids are disappointed by their father’s disengagement but they have certainly learned not to take it personally.

In part, this is because disengagement or lack of effort is unlikely to be limited to not showing up fr events. My kids can see that while they get varied meals at my house, my ex feeds them the same thing day in and out. They see that when they go to his, everything they need goes with them but when they come back to mine, stuff is often forgotten. They see that I get them presents that suit their tastes while their dad gets them stuff that reflects his.

Over time through comparison and support they build a picture that is realistic, even if disappointing, and I think this is actually likely to serve them well.

Kids don’t need to be protected from every difficult but honest emotion, they just need to be supported and helped to process them.

Also, let’s be honest. If a man is capable of ignoring his child’s direct request for his attendance at an event, what are the odds that he is going to respond differently to that same request coming from the child’s mother?

We as mothers want to believe that our dedication and love compensates for the men’s indifference, etc.
I had a fully dedicated mother - she did above and beyond of what a mother could do. And I don’t think I even actively missed my father not being around much when I was a kid.

But as a grown up - when I started having relationships as an adult - this is when the wounds I didn’t know I had showed up.

If i were in the situation where a simple email
can possibly make a little difference - why not put pride aside and tell ExH - ‘hey that concert on Wed is important for DD - hope you can make it’

I’m sorry for your experiences but I honestly think you are placing far too much weight on the idea that women have any real influence over a man they have separated from.

In many cases, pursuing a point like this can even lead to resentment and feelings of being guilt-tripped in the man, and make him more resistant to engaging.

I strongly believe you have to let people be who they are.

I would say “I’ve told Dad when it is and really hoped he would come but he must have had some work come up or an emergency” then let him reply.

I am confused by those saying it can set a child up for bad relationships. Surely having a false view of her dad (where he turns up to things invisibly prompted and cajoled by her mum) might be more likely to mean she isn’t a good judge of character in later life and maybe gives future partners more credit than they are due or doesn’t spot red flags?