Housing needs/ split

[CoolLemonBiscuit]

Hi guys,

Im going through a divorce atm its been dragging on for over a year trying to get my ex wife to actually respond to her solicitor. We have three children twins that are 7 (boy and girl) and a 9 year old son. We currently still live together and get on all be it time to time emotions get the better of us, we still have time for eachother.
Whilst its amicable we both differ massively on what we think the split should be.
We live in a 4 bedroom detached home valued at 500k. We have about 315k in equity. Moving foward we earn about the same around the 55k mark I work full time and she works part time. Pension wise there's a 30k difference in her favour.
On the form E I put my housing needs at around the 320k mark and I have a morgage capacity of 180k, in my area I need 290 - 320k to buy a 3 bedroom house to have the kids 1-2 nights a week and more in the holidays.
Ex-wife wants to stay in the family home but on the form E she put her housing needs as 375k, her mortgage raising capacity is 195k and she'll have the kids the other nights etc but shes determined to stay in the family home.

She has has asked her parents to help her out and buy me out at 90k and leave pensions out, if the split was 50/50 it would leave me about 37k short.

The problem for me is this gives me a buying power of 270k which in my area would only allow me to buy a 2 bed property. Which would mean craming the kids in to a small room in a triple bunk beds, whilst this might work when there young it certainly won't last.

If she put her mortgage raising capacity + plus 50/50 split + her money from her parents she'd have the buying power well over 400k and would be suitably housed.

Has anyone experienced this and what was the outcome, I feel im being well under housed at the expense of being able to house the kids reasonably.

Thanks

If it’s dragging on and you want to move on, I would be tempted to go with her plan. There’s less upset for your children keeping the family home. You could buy a 2 bed with either a garage or dining room that could be used as an additional bedroom in time. Not ideal for you, but it’s a start.

50/50 is fair. As she has a bigger pension you’ll get a little more equity

I would try and meet somewhere in the middle, it would be good if she can keep family home for kids stability (plus it would save you all time and money).
But you need enough for a 3 bed ideally, perhaps try and get her to agree to a deal where you’re only £17-20k out of pocket?

Other option is you get a 2 bed and put a sofa bed in the lounge. On the 1-2 nights a week you have them, your daughter has your room.
Or find a generous 2 bed, where you can split one room into 2? Garage conversion, dining room/study that can be used as an occasional bedroom?

No I wouldn’t agree to her proposal.
also if you both earn the same now but she is part time she has a much bigger earning potential.
id leverage the pension for extra capital.

That’s true, I hadn’t noticed she’s part time. She needs to be basing her figures on full time hours ideally.
Although, that would mean you’d need to increase your capacity to share the childcare responsibilities with her - 50/50? (or contribute financially to the extra childcare costs that she’d incur)

Thanks guys, sorry its my pension that is slightly more. The problem is 2 beds are flats in my area with very little scope to add extra.
Childcare wise I dont think in fact I'd be shocked if that ever was an issue between us.
I can cope with housing them in a 2 bed whilst there young, but obviously this will only be a few more years.

I've said ill live in my van for the next 6-12 months once all this is agreed, to increase my financial position.

To me there's enough to go 50/50, obviously ofsetting the pension difference in her favour. Which would leave me around 125k which would cover me perfectly.

I dont want more than im entitled to, I just want to be reasonably housed for me and the children.
I do begrudge however her being well overhoused/ part-time, booking holidays etc (another bug bear of mine) all at my expense.

I'd happily take less if I could reach the bear minimum housing needs, just to get this done, my solicitor sent my original offer back in june and all we get back from hers is will get her offer soon. She's told me this is her offer verbally but that means nothing to whats on papper.

As for a 2 bed with garage dinning room etc. We're talking 2 up 2 down not a spacious 2 bed, if its got a garage its in a block, plus the expense of a garage conversion ££££ when I barely have enough to buy the property its self.
So my only option would be a sofa bed etc.
Which is ok for the next few years but very short sited in the long run.

In that case, I’d sit tight. Stay living as you are, every month you’re paying off more of the mortgage and your house is going up in value.
You also get to see your kids all the time.
Hopefully at some point, she’ll get bored of the situation and meet you more in the middle.
If your housing needs are £320k, then hers should be similar. I think a court would expect her to work full time too.

If not agree to that

you earn the sane and housing needs are the same. It’s 50:50 perhaps equity slightly adjusted if your pension is slightly more. So she needs to raise 150k to buy you out if she wants to stay in the fmh

you shouldn’t be forced into accepting 2 bed flat ( where your kids ultimately probably won’t want to stay as they don’t have space while checkers a 4 bed detached.

you need to push to get to court / everything you state in your op says 50:50 and if needed the house needs selling

And she needs to work ft but you can’t force that - but the settlement must be derived based on what income that could provide for. Stand firm

If her income is the same as yours while working part time, but she is taking on the bulk of childcare then I do think a 50/50 split seems fair.

Is her mortgage raising capacity based on her part time income or full time? I'm guessing her current income so it could actually be much higher.

The thing to really consider here is whether arguing about it is worth it. That difference in the split based on ex's proposal will very quickly disappear in a court case or quite possibly you would both end up with less then either current proposed splits, it would also introduce a lot of bitterness.

Who is pushing for you to leave the house? You or your ex? If the ex and you are happy to stay in the short/medium term then I would sit tight, save money and keep an eye of for a good opportunity to buy a suitable property with room to expand ideally. If she is keen to get you out she may be more willing to compromise. This is assuming that you two living together isn't putting the kids in a bad situation, between arguments etc.

I'll be honest we dont really argue, we actually get on a lot better now than we ever did, which is sad to say.

Im not chasing every penny, I just want to be reasonably housed, I dont want a mansion or a yaught or a jet ski. I just want to be reasonably housed and be able to spend quality time with the children! I dont want to see the kids out of the family home as such, but there's also enough in the pot to meet both are needs, like I said I just need enough to get a 3 bedroom place for us.
But I am also the other parent and whats in there best interest staying in a nice big detached 4 bedroom house and shit time crammed in with daddy or both somwhere in the middle? Both will have effects on the kids, but there needs to be some flexibility

For the sake of stability for the kids, who will mostly live in her house in future, I would accept her proposal, and plan to only stay in the 2 bed place (that you can afford to buy) until could afford to buy bigger. If you put the children's needs first, them staying in same home & perceiving as little disruption as possible is hugely valuable, and is achievable. Would be different if you guys wanted 50:50 custody but that isn't what you otherwise want.

What have you agreed about shared costs for the children as they get older?

You could argue that the kids' housing is covered out of her advantage in not having to move out, so you then only need to share 50% of their food-hobbies-clothing etc. costs.

I see where you're coming from to a point. But this buy a bigger place in the future idea, where's this extra ££££ in the future exactly? Im not due to come in to money etc.
We've agreed £600 a month.

I see your point, but I dont agree, sorry.

I love my kids and want the best for them, but not having a safe space with me, when there's plenty in the pot, just dosnt seem right.

Stability for children comes from two loving parents helping the kids navigate through tough times.
No matter how big the house is, no matter how much one party is seen to "win" there's still the void of the other parent (most often the father) that gets brushed to one side and forgotten! Its sad but this is the way the world's wired.

No matter there the reason the kids should come first and get to spend quality time with each parent and feel they have there own space in each home, so they feel safe and not out of place at either.

Unfortunately we won't agree, there's enough in the pot to reasonably house us both and arguably she will still be over housed.

OP, you are entitled to half in any split. Obviously it’s better for your DW and the DC if they can manage to stay in the family home, but if this is unaffordable, then it will have to be sold and you will both have to look elsewhere. If the children are living mainly with your ex-DW, then it’s reasonable for her to have somewhere a little larger as that will be the DC’s main home. What does your solicitor suggest? The whole point of having legal representation is to get a fair deal, and in divorce, there are always compromises on both sides. I really don’t think you should be living out of a van for six months - how on earth will you be able to see your DC? You need some sort of realistic division whereby you can both go your separate ways and live a reasonable life, and if that means you both end up in 3 bed houses, so be it.

I'd be careful about dragging it out if I were you.

If your house is worth 500K then it will be in the sights of the new Govt Property Tax proposals, so if you were required to sell then you may end up paying tax on the sale purchase under the potential new rules.

Also, the property prices may get even softer after any government changes and you may see the value go down.

I'd find a workable solution as soon as you can and move on with your life.

Its not me dragging it out, my form was complete and excepted by exs solicitors in may, I sent no prejudice offer back in june under my solicitors legal advice to which were still waiting a response/ counter proposal.

Im well aware she will primary housing needs to which I have no objection! But there's our 500k 4 bedroom house and then Here's a perfectly suitable 4 bed at 400k aswell. Which if she did would house her, and me in a 3 bedroom property.
And there's enough in the matrimonial pot and funds available to achieve this outcome.

My solicitor said 50/50 is reasonable and to sell the property to accomidate us both.

One thing to consider OP is if you insist on getting more and the family house is sold then all the estate agent fees, conveyancing solicitors and stamp duty etc will be taken out from the equity BEFORE it is split. How much will that reduce your share? Is it worth wasting £50K just for you to gain £20K?

Could you accept what is offered now but have (I think it's called) an interest against the house so if it gets sold you get a % of the equity still?

Why should op have to accept this rather than the ex wife accept she needs to move? Usual typical double standards

op should not be squashed into 2 bed flat struggling for money while ex does not

Yeah its probably 25-30k more if we sold it..... which would house us both appropriately.

If i take the 90k now just to keep everyone else happy. Im still 25-30k away from being able to house the kids and my self appropriately, and thats not a small amount of money, might be to some who are in that blessed situation.
A mesher order is possible in guess, but I dont need the money in 10years time I need it now, im not doing it to be spiteful or greedy, I couldn't really care less if it was 90/10 split, just as long as I could get the bare minimum requirements for me and my children.

So if I took 90k now to keep everyone else happy, what do I do, buy a 2 bedroom flat and just except I can't have the kids properly?

She could go to work full time thus releasing more equity to me... but she won't! Shes 125k over housed by her own admission. All at mine and my children's living standards expense.
Im not being greedy but i would like the minimum.

I'm NOT telling OP to accept it blindly so quit with your own bias. I'm reminding OP that it might not be worth the fight financially but only they can look more closely at whether it would still be worth it for them as costs vary depending on where they live. It's one of those hidden costs that people fail to consider.

@INeedAnotherName you quit thanks

I agree with this

Pension is devalued as can’t be accessed today, you need a cert on it, but let’s say it’s worth £15k to her. So 50/50 is £150k each. That’s what she needs to raise to buy you out. Can she raise that?
if you sell, and then both have to buy a new places each, your pot will be impacted. Agency sale costs, moving costs and stamp on 2 new properties will all come off your £150k - probably 10-15k each. Also selling right now might be hard, the market is shocking and you might need to heavily discount to even get a sale. Complicated situation but I’d say you want at least £130k from her to make it fair, and you’ll not get much more than that either way.