Ex husband's holiday request

[Summerkoala]

Hi Everyone,

My ex and I have just come through a very messy divorce and have two children (aged 3 and 6). We have a 50/50 child arrangement and school holidays are currently split one week each.

My ex is asking to change the order for next Xmas (2026) so he can take the girls to New Zealand for a 2 week holiday to visit his friend. The girls will the be 5 and 8.

He is threatening to submit a C100 form to the court if I don't agree to this.

How likely is the court to agree to this? I can't bare the thought of him taking them to NZ on his own, and for them to be away from me for 2 weeks. They're already both struggling with the 50/50 arrangement.

A bit of background... We had CAFCASS involved during the court cases and they stated there was evidence of coercive control on his part and that the girls should not be away from me for more than three nights. The report them contradicted itself entirely and suggested a 50/50 agreement. I felt completely let down by them and ended up settling out of court which I regret.

He has since continued to be awful, awkward and nasty to me over message about just about anything we have to discuss where the children or money are concerned.

I thought this would all get easier once the court cases were over... He has got what he wanted on most things and is still full of hate and not happy. I'm not sure how to countinue like this as the girls grow up. It's really wearing me down.

Any advice would be grately appreciated.

Yours are still very little, New Zealand is too bloody far for them to be going away without you.
My partner had it written into his CAO that they do 1 week max each until youngest is 6 then 2 weeks with agreement of both parties
Added to that, it's Christmas - why would he think ok for you not to see them over that magical time.
Absolutely not ok if it were me.

This is an amazing opportunity for your children. Have you actually asked them if this would be something they’d like to do rather than basing your decision on your own feelings about it?

Would you get Christmas Day 25 and Christmas 27? I’d enter negotiations with him if you can, using a communication app to record it all so there’s no denying what was said and agreed. Do the children want to go?

This isn't how it works with court ordered contact

For day to day life yes that might be what one child says but for a holiday might be different. Have you asked the children their thoughts on a holiday?

How are OPs children at 5 and 8 too young to go away for 2 weeks with their dad but yours at 6 with agreement isn’t too young for 2 weeks?

Maybe coloured by my experience, but men who make their kids feel unsafe, don't take a holiday from it.
Im really sorry Cafcass let you down OP :(

Because aged 5 comes before aged 6 so on that basis, OP children are still too little....
It's also not my children, it's my partners. And it's also WITH agreement, of which OP clearly doesn't agree. Not sure you read my post correctly.
My children are 8 and 12 and they still haven't been away without me for 2 weeks. Their Dad agrees with that also.

As if he is going to fly for 26 hours with two kids in tow…..I’d say yes if I’m honest, why not, however I would very much doubt that come the time, he will do it.

Who does the order state the children live with? Is it both of you (with you saying it’s 50/50).

Is there any provision within the order for going abroad?

I hear you, my advice is to always pre empt these things by initiating yourself any kind of court action. IF mediation is something you can look into, then do so. If it isn’t, look into something called a Specific Issue Order and take this dispute to court. Put forward how you feel but always place your children front and centre and really think about if this is about your fears and anxiety being separated from them (totally understandable esp if he’s like the mass majority of DP we read about who do fuck all parenting so you’ve zero idea how he is going to parent them etc) or if this is actually a positive for them.

think about is it the timing of this trip being that it’s over Xmas? Is it who he’s going with? A specific issue order will allow for you to think about a compromise and put that to the court BUT it is also another layer of protection for future potential control moved from him. You can include holiday duration and locations on this order, who has the psssport and when it’s to be exchanged over so he can’t ruin holidays and so on. Make sure it is literally impossible to deviate from, that it’s black and white down to the last detail. Move all comms to a court approved parenting app. Our family wizard does a paid one and a premium one. AppClose is a free one. Look up Lina at The Milk Exchange. It’s a private members group where you get one to one support and a forum of others in your position. They also have access to a solicitors firm at a discounted rate plus they take legal aid. Be a step ahead of the game. For kids, it’s recommended we do yellow rock and not gray rock, if your current order doesn’t explicitly dot the i’s and cross the t’s then take it back to court and solidify this. What you must do is protect your peace as this will not get better, it never does. Your kids WILL pick up on this whether they see it or not. The updated DV act states children are now considered victims of dv if they see hear or experience the impact of abuse, inc a drop in your emotional availability or usual parenting capacity. Do not allow for him to have any inning into this tormenting that they get off in. And you do this by educating yourself, placing zero trust in his intentions or being a decent child focused parent and you get every single time spent locked down legally so that you don’t have to argue the toss and live on a knife edge,

The kids are split 50/50 with their time between parents, of course they are going to be unsettled by it when it’s new, it doesn’t mean the kids feel unsafe

I wouldn’t advise to start court proceedings unless it’s absolutely necessary. Especially since proceedings sound like they have not long since concluded.

It would be a prohibited steps order the OP would be applying for; to prohibit dad from taking them abroad.

It would be dad that would need to apply for a specific issue order as he would be the one wanting the court to make a specific decision on whether he can take the children abroad for 2 weeks.

On that basis 1 of the children is to little. Everyone’s circumstances are different, my DD went on holiday with her dad when she was 3 for 2 weeks. Of course it broke my heart the thought of her going away but she was with her dad who is as much a parent as me and she had a great time. I just felt my feelings of not wanting her to go don’t get the final say, that’s only fair

I’m thinking pre-emptively as in, amend the order to state how holidays inc this one will work and sort out the passport logistics for the ongoing future so as to wrap it up whilst things are fresh rather than go ping pong into court for any stupid little reason as many men like this tend to continue abuse via the legal system.

Ah ok, that would be applying to vary the order. It depends how long it has been since proceedings concluded as the courts don’t particularly like to see the case reopened before 1 year

I just wouldn’t answer the question and just say ‘let’s see how they are closer to the time’
and use a parenting app so he can’t abuse you

I think you are going to have to agree unfortunately as he will just drag you back to court again and again and again. Just piss him off by inferring you’ll enjoy the adult time with your new boyfriend while he’s away.

I don’t think it’s unreasonable for your ex to take his DC on a two week holiday but you should make sure that in return you get them to yourself for two weeks.

I do think it’s unreasonable that the holiday is at Christmas. You should both get to see your children at Christmas. Your ex has 50 other weeks during the year that he can take DC to New Zealand.

The majority of posters commenting on this thread have zero idea about family court/Court orders or abusive ex partners. I would advise posting in Legal, @Summerkoala . You don't need to apply to court - you are not seeking to vary the order which has only just been made. That's up to your ex. Who has the children's passports?

I agree, it’s up for the ex to apply if he wants permission to go on the holiday, if OP decides against.

Some of us have a vast amount of experience in family court, in addition to having legal qualifications.

My exh took our youngest who was 3 away for 3 weeks. I even swapped cars to enable him to go. Or he would have told the dc I was being awful denying them a trip.. It was the only one he took them on. Not even a day out after that... Twas to upset me. I Ma betting your ex won't even sort passports out..

Visit ‘a friend’ half way across the world and away from their mum and extended family at Christmas? I wouldn’t be keen either. I think you could argue that he can take them when they are older, but not now.

Court generally like to let children have the experiences that a holiday entails but they also consider family bonds, their ages and you could also point to the Cafcass report stating no more than 3 nights and they need time to settle. Children thrive on routine and traditions staying the same.

If you want to say no, then do that. If he wants to take it to court, let him. It would be up to him
to file.

I would hate it, there is literally nowhere further. Kids seem very young also. They would likely enjoy and appreciate it more when Older. I would stick to the current order. Plenty of nice holidays he can do in a week within a couple hours flight.
If it were more civil could fly out with them and both spend a week in NZ with kids and then have a week to yourself. Probably a bit of a crazy idea!

Start using a parenting app and build trust that way. It’s not around the corner. Let him go to court and let the court decide but I suspect they will allow so be prepared. If his behaviour deteriorates or he is abusive or controlling to your kids, back to court with the evidence