Christmas arguments already 😒

[Spottingtwerps]

My husband and I have been separated for nearly 2 years. We have a 2.5 yo. The last 2 Christmases we've spent the day together with DD. It's been perfectly pleasant and neither of us missed out on anything.

Earlier this year, in Sept, he said he wanted to take DD to (another country) where his family lives, without me, just him. He said for Christmas. I was sort of ok with it but we had no discussions or conversations. He'd mentioned it but nothing else had been said. I wondered if he'd changed his mind.

Today, out of the blue, in a conversation about something else he just blurted out that he'd booked it and was going. He gave me the dates and said that was that, he was going and taking DD. It amounts to DD being away from me for a week incl Christmas eve and Christmas Day.

I am both furious and devastated. Furious that there was no discussion about exactly when, which dates, how long for, what did I want, did I have any plans for her, when was I off work etc etc. Nothing. Obviously devastated to be simply told when my DD will be away and I appear in his view to have no say.

He says his mother has not had a Christmas with her grand daughter so far but, I've only had two! DD is and will be my only child. MiL has multiple children, the number of grand children is in double figures, has some great grand children. Decades of Christmases with all.

We've had a massive row unsurprisingly (not in earshot of DD) and I've had to explicitly say, he does not have my consent to take DD abroad.

There's no agreement in place, no court order. We're separated, not divorced. Have had pretty amicable arrangements up until now, flexible towards one another and informal. I've invited him to every significant date/occasion/event in DDs life. No real problems up until now except occasional clash of diaries.

Am I wrong to feel so aggrieved? Isn't it perfectly reasonable to expect a discussion of when and how long he'd be away for?

Does a grandmother's desire to spend Christmas Day with a grand child trump a mother's (I'd go as far as to say need) to spend it with her only baby? Why am I sacrificing a Christmas for this woman and why do I have to compete?

Yes she does, which I am in possession of!

MIL is not able to travel or at least she'd need accompanying the whole way due to health conditions.

Of course a grandmother doesn't trump a mother, but I think the problem is that when he mentioned it a few weeks ago, and said it would be for Christmas, you seemed to be ok with the idea. Why didn't you say no if you're not ok with it?

I wouldn't agree to this.

Usually Xmas is split in some way though.

We did -

I have kids Christmas Eve and Christmas Day until 5pm and exh gets Christmas Day night and Boxing Day. Then the following year we swap.

Yea, you definitely should have expressed your unhappiness about it earlier. Made your stance clear. Because of this, I would let her go this year, but come up with a clear plan going forward. However, this would depend how involved he is for me. If he does every other weekend, I would be prepared to discuss holidays that fall on his weekend. If he does 50/50 I would discuss 50% of holidays (but maybe that's just my own bitterness 😅

That is one of the things that annoys me the most, ruining the amicable mutually agreeable set up that we have. There is no hostility and atm we are quite friendly so I am baffled and really disappointed that he's done this behind my back.

I have not monopolised Christmas or other events, we've shared them. I would say she'd have had far fewer events and occasions if it wasn't for me organising them. He has always been invited and as far as I can remember, always come. I would be happy to that as long as it was feasible. We did it largely for our DD so she wouldn't be separated from either of us and shuttled about.

I didn't think it would last forever of course but while she's tiny, it was reasona ble and we were both happy with it.

This isn't a Christmas tradition that he's establishing. He hates Christmas, he hates where his mum lives. It's depressing, there's nothing to do, its in the back of beyond. It's dreadful. He hates it. If he wanted DD at his house for the day or whatever that would be possible. This is a week abroad. Completely different.

She's far to young to be away from mum for a week.
Get him told no

That’s fine, he can go and collect her then. No need to take your dd out of the country. No way on earth would I allow this. As someone else said upthread, take a prohibitive steps order to prevent him.

Tell him DD isn't going and you won't be giving him her passport. Of course, if he's determined he could report her passport as lost and get another one without telling you, so in your shoes I'd also apply for a prohibited steps order now, banning him from taking her without your consent.

And then go to mediation to put in place a pattern for future christmases/summer holidays/etc.

You have 16 years of these compromises. As tough as it will be not having her for Christmas Day, if you refuse then you could find yourself being unable to make plans in the future to ever go on holidays, you'll loose the flexibility to ever make plans together etc. This sounds like a classic misunderstanding, he mentioned it you didn't object, he's now booked it and you have realised that you won't be seeing her.

Sounds like his mother is unwell too, perhaps that's the reason he wants to go now.

If you refuse say goodbye to amicable. Your choice. At 2 i would suggest having an amazing Christmas when they get back as they can't read the calendar!

This is all about how you feel. How would DD cope with being away from you for a whole week?

(I would feel the same as you, TBF).

Edited for typo.

No, if she refuses she’s setting boundaries. If she says yes he will carry on thinking he can make whatever arrangements suit him, not give a fuck what the op thinks, but also expect her to continue to make sure he’s invited to every event she organises, because in his mind she’s a mum and that means she owes him parenting support, but he’s a dad and that means he owes her fuck all and thinks of himself first. He is obviously not thinking of his 2yo, which is a huge problem when he warns to take her abroad for a week over Christmas, sounds like her grandmas house will be full of shrieking excited strange children and 2yo will be terrified of leaving him, while he’s never done a week of parenting and is fully expecting being able to hand her over to said strangers and relax for chunks of time.

Why didn’t he say it was for a WEEK over ALL Christmas at the time? Because he thought he could get exactly this reaction and bully her into it. It’s a no, and if that loses him money on the booking that’s the cost of failing to communicate.

I agree with this - I understand how you feel OP as I'd be devastated at not seeing my dd at Christmas, but if you say no to this, be prepared for him to say no to you ever taking DD away on holiday for a week.

I think not saying no when he first brooched it is what caused the problem.

It might not have been stated as a week, but if he said he's taking her away at Christmas I'd expect that to be Christmas Day and Eve, and Boxing day. So I'd have said no as she needs to be with her parents, but he could take her after/for new year.

Can a father really not take his own child abroad on holiday? I find that hard to believe. What about single fathers? Who do they get “permission” from?

From the mother

Neither can take a child without permission from the state. If they do it is a crime and the courts are very good at imposing strong sentences.

It seems that the time has now come (he's forced your hand in this) to put things on a legal footing and you need to start divorced proceedings against him. Wrapped up in that will be the care for your daughter and what happens there and arrangements around that.

Best of luck to you with it all.

I simply could not be separated from my dc at that age for a week. Some people could. How do you feel about it? How will dd cope being in a family event without you? I would imagine dc crying every night for me at bedtime. And waking up hoping to see me and being sad.

I would say to your ex, dc is simply too young to cope with a long overseas trip like that without you.

On the other hand, Christmas means virtually nothing to such a young child. You could “get it over with” and then you’ll be all set for future years to have dd with you.

Personally I wouldn’t let ex dh get away with simply presenting this as a done deal. I’d tell him he can have dc on 23rd and you want dc back on 26th. That is generous and not such a scary long time. You choose the flight times. It’s that or nothing, until dc is a lot older.

The risk of letting him take her is that he refuses to give the passport back, in which case you would need to report it lost/stolen and get a new one.

It’s shitty that he steamed ahead with booking but you did tell him you were ok with it.

I don't suppose you'll want to say which country this is but how far away is it and how long is the flight? Is the country part of the Schengen Agreement?

What sort of thing did you discuss when you were originally “kind of ok with it”?Were you expecting them to fly on Boxing Day, for example?

He should have made a final check with you before actually buying flights but he didn’t dO it completely out of the blue.