Christmas arguments already 😒

[Spottingtwerps]

My husband and I have been separated for nearly 2 years. We have a 2.5 yo. The last 2 Christmases we've spent the day together with DD. It's been perfectly pleasant and neither of us missed out on anything.

Earlier this year, in Sept, he said he wanted to take DD to (another country) where his family lives, without me, just him. He said for Christmas. I was sort of ok with it but we had no discussions or conversations. He'd mentioned it but nothing else had been said. I wondered if he'd changed his mind.

Today, out of the blue, in a conversation about something else he just blurted out that he'd booked it and was going. He gave me the dates and said that was that, he was going and taking DD. It amounts to DD being away from me for a week incl Christmas eve and Christmas Day.

I am both furious and devastated. Furious that there was no discussion about exactly when, which dates, how long for, what did I want, did I have any plans for her, when was I off work etc etc. Nothing. Obviously devastated to be simply told when my DD will be away and I appear in his view to have no say.

He says his mother has not had a Christmas with her grand daughter so far but, I've only had two! DD is and will be my only child. MiL has multiple children, the number of grand children is in double figures, has some great grand children. Decades of Christmases with all.

We've had a massive row unsurprisingly (not in earshot of DD) and I've had to explicitly say, he does not have my consent to take DD abroad.

There's no agreement in place, no court order. We're separated, not divorced. Have had pretty amicable arrangements up until now, flexible towards one another and informal. I've invited him to every significant date/occasion/event in DDs life. No real problems up until now except occasional clash of diaries.

Am I wrong to feel so aggrieved? Isn't it perfectly reasonable to expect a discussion of when and how long he'd be away for?

Does a grandmother's desire to spend Christmas Day with a grand child trump a mother's (I'd go as far as to say need) to spend it with her only baby? Why am I sacrificing a Christmas for this woman and why do I have to compete?

Yanbu. He can take her to see her grandma on other dates. I would remind him you’ve invited him to everything in his daughter’s life while he on the other hand has booked taking her away from you for an entire Christmas period. Are there legal steps you can take to
stop him taking her abroad? I’d take them.

Does your DD have a passport?

And you need to say if this is so all important to the grandma she can travel here, as dd seeing her mum at Christmas is non negotiable. I think much less of your grandma if she supports you to take a toddler away from her mum over Christmas.

Also what country is it? That plays a huge part in how comfortable I’d be (which would be not at all!)

I'd definitely conveniently lose her passport.

No is a full sentence, stand firm. He has no right to book Christmas abroad without express agreement, really off way of going about this. Start divorce proceedings to get things formalised.

He’s been absolutely ridiculous. It sounds like by booking it - if he really has - will bully you into agreeing. You’ve done the right thing by saying no. I wouldn’t engage with it further. If she doesn’t have a passport you might want to apply for one now so you’ve got it and he can’t apply. If she’s got one keep it safe.

His actions have completely jeopardised an amicable set up between you, what a prick. Can you get on with the divorce and an official child arrangement order?

At least you can plan a lovely Christmas knowing you’ll have her and he’ll presumably be away.

Be very wary whatever you feel about being parted from DD at Christmas. Don't let him have her passport. Even without knowing what country it is and how dependable he is about bringing her back, this is a complete No No.

He should have discussed it with you, but you separated over 2 years ago so he isnnot unreasonable to wnat to establish Christmas traditions of his own with dd. Likewise you can do the same next year.

You are separated which means alternative Christmases are going to become your normal. You cannot monopolise those events.

If you have concerns that henwoukd not return dd then that's a whole different issue and you can apply for a prohibitive steps order to stop him leaving the country with her. But think hard before you take that action as he could do the same should you ever want to go abroad on holiday with her etc.

Absolutely fucking not

Not necessarily, most children spend morning with one parent and the afternoon with another and then switch this year on year. Both parents get to see their child at Christmas.

I'd be going to court to get a prohibited steps order to stop him taking her abroad.

Fucking hell OP. Nobody, including my DH who I’m happily married to, tells me what my own children are doing for Christmas 😱.

He’s been pressured by his mum, and trying to present you with a fait accompli because he doesn’t want to or can’t say no to her. She’s YOUR child. The norm would be that you spend every Christmas with her. As you’ve separated, it’ll be every other Christmas unless you can continue to co-parent amicably and spend them together. Under no circumstance does he TELL you that you definitely are not seeing her. Omg.

What country is it ? Is it a signatory to The Hague Convention ?

Your ex isn’t unreasonable to ask but he’s also unreasonable not to say how many days. A week when dd isn’t used to being away from you is a long time.

Not a chance. Get organised, passport, court order fight if necessary. It is ridiculous to take a child that young away for a week without specific agreement.

It's a no from me

No you're not being unreasonable.
MIL is not a parent.
a week is too long
a court wouldn't be likely to agree to this given the context
where is her passport?
you need to refuse permission in writing

Don't blame Grandma, this is ex's decision and he is hiding behind blaming his DM. You are sacrificing Christmas to his (selfish) arrangements.
Would you have felt differently if he had asked you to travel with him and DD to spend sometime with DD on Christmas Day/ the holidays?
I agree that his behaviour is deplorable. What an idiot to jeopardise your amicable arrangements.

There is no way in hell my child would be leaving the country without something legally in place, she’s only 2 1/2. You need to get a legal agreement in place asap and do not let him have her passport. What a ridiculous suggestion to take a child this young to spend Christmas with his mother when he could bring his mother over for Christmas. It would be a very firm no from me and the words “go fuck yourself” would probably have been mentioned to him.

This would be a massive no from me. Your child is 2.5 and a week is a long time away from who I presume is the primary parent.

Which country are we talking about? I'd withold her passport if I were you and go to court to get a prohibitive steps order.

I'm assuming in his mind- you discussed this months ago- you didn't say no, as you said yourself you were kinda ok with it- he's gone ahead and booked it- and sorry, it was always going to be for Christmas Eve and Christmas Day if he was going over seas. Now he's said these are the dates you've realised you don't want to. I guess it depends going forward how you want to do your custody and really need to take it to court to establish dates such as Christmas and other holidays.

He can't just take her out of the country without your consent. He needs a signed travel consent letter from you permitting this. check out the government website about taking children abroad, otherwise he is committing an offence.

There is no way he should just spring this on you and is a total lack of consideration for you spending time with your daughter over Christmas. Stand your ground and say no. If he is adamant you can seek out a solicitor to stop this.

Also consider if you let this go then you are setting a precedent for him to do similar in future if he knows he is going to get away with it.

Why didn't you give a hard no at the time? You were 'kind of ok with it' and now you're (understandably) not. This should have been nipped in the bud when the idea was first broached.
If DD has a passport, it needs to be conveniently 'lost'.

He could apply for a new passport easily if it's lost. See my post above. He cannot legally take her out of the country without the OPs permission.

You are going to be co parenting for decades many of them spent as parents to a child. Who will have special events, birthdays and Christmases that need to be accommodated.

You won’t get to have your daughter every Christmas and every birthday and on every occasion. There will be times when you going to want to go on holiday abroad on dates when he has her.

If you start climbing up ladders now don’t expect reciprocity or tolerance from him. Things will escalate and you will all be losers especially your daughter.

Deal with the fact he hasn’t properly communicated his plans. But you will also have to deal with being separated on Christmas Day and other significant days if he formalises things. And maybe you now have something to negotiate around.

Personally I’d think about conceding to this on the agreement of at least the next 2 Christmas days at mine.

Make sure you put it in writing. No she cannot leave the country, yes you would like to arrange to share Christmas day. Would he like AM this year and you have PM, and vice versa next year?