Financial split in divorce

[NSwiftie85]

Hello MN,

First time reluctant poster so hope I'm doing this right. Desperate for some advice from you ladies (and gents) as I'm totally at my wits end here!

Currently going through what is a fairly acrimonious divorce with STBXH. Or should I say it has become acrimonious more recently since we got the conditional order and started to discuss finances.

We have a long marriage, nearly 15 years, and 2 children one in primary and one in secondary school. They both live with me but spend 4-5 days every fortnight at dad's (he pays CM according to calculator for it).

I live in the FMH which has c.£250k equity and a mortgage of c.£200k outstanding. ExH pays the mortgage in full even if we own jointly and he has moved out and renting because I cannot afford it really. Recently, he has become increasingly pushy to move to sell the house and split the money but there isn't enough equity for me to buy an equivalent 3bed for me and the kids. I have been a SAHM since my eldest was born, I have a university degree but never really had much of a career before giving birth tbh. So my earnings are limited at best, further so by the fact that I need to do the school run and can't afford clubs etc. so can only work PT during term time. I use benefits and the CM to top up my income but it's not much, is it!

So I have asked to get a fixed £200k in order to buy a 2bed property outright without mortgage, which sent him flying off the hinges. He says that leaves him with barely anything to buy for himself as the house may not sell at maximum value, there are fees and an early repayment charge, etc. He wants a % split but how can I be sure it will give me enough funds to house myself! He says there are 2bed properties that cost less than 200k and that I should also work FT and get a small mortgage. But he has a much higher mortgage capacity (I have next to none).

He earns 85k + some company benefits + cash bonus bringing him to almost 100k a year. He also gets stock compensation from his employer but none of it is available to sell for the next few years at least and he will lose it if he is fired or quits so he claims it's irrelevant, I don't think so!

He has received cetv for his pensions and they come to about 120k, which he's offered me only 40% of since "it's easier to just transfer you one of the two" 🙄 I have asked for 50%.

So as I said, I'm at my wits end as to what to do. Ideally, I would like to stay in the FMH with the kids for their stability but can't afford it unless he supports. If the house is to be sold, I need 200k+ to rehome myself. He has offered me 60% of the house and then upped it to 70% but I think I need 80% and ideally would have a fixed sum and not %. I also want more from his pension and some of his stocks which he is hell bent against. He is now threatening me with court proceedings saying I'm not flexible and willing to negotiate and while I have a solicitor, he is saying that he can't advise me without exchanging form E and wants to charge me nearly a grand for it. Both me and STBXH have provided basic disclosure forms to one another (D81). I feel my requests are reasonable but I want to make sure me and my kids are protected. At the same time, ExH is effectively gaslighting me calling me greedy etc.

I'm just so emotionally drained from it all and just want it to go away. My mental health has really deteriorated stressing about it and under the pressure ExH keeps applying onto me. I have no friends to confide in and my family lives away in a different part of the country so it just feels so lonely and scary but I need to keep strong for my boys. So can you please advise me what is reasonable for me to ask for in my situation based on your experiences?

1. get a full time job asap
2. look for houses in cheaper areas
3. your ex also needs suitable housing for himself and the children
4. get a full time job asap

No, you chose to have children and stop working. You raised your own kids, and his career enabled you to live a nice life as a SAHM far beyond what the berate mother does.

I'm afraid it doesn't matter what holidays he goes on or what restaurants he eats in. You have to just put that out of your mind.
You can't ask for most of the equity and half the pension. That isn't fair. So you'll have to rebalanced your expectations and focus on equity if that's what you need and forgoe some of the pension. He will pay maintenance for the kids. If your earning potential is less this can be used to argue for a larger share of equity but you won't get any other award to adjust for the fact that he earns more than you. Spousal is rarely awarded these days.

I say this with kindness…..

You won’t get what you want (divorce is based on needs, not wants). You need to lower your expectations and will be expected you start supporting yourself. In divorce you are no longer his responsibility to support.

You say yourself that you have a degree but never really used it. You’ve had the luxury of being supported for years. That was your decision which you need to take responsibility for. Thankfully the 1950’s expectation that the man will continue to support the women post divorce are over.

You live in the FMH and your EX is paying the mortgage in full. He doesn’t have to (as you have the luxury of living there while he has to pay rent).

The court has a duty to give both parties a clean break.

If you can’t afford to pay the mortgage yourself the court will expect you to rent (the court doesn’t care if you are a homeowner or rent).

You don’t need to work PT - like lots of single mothers, you are going to have to put your big girl pants on and work FT. You might not like it, but that’s the reality.

Your expectation of getting 80% equity of the FMH is completely unrealistic. The court will start at 50:50. You don’t ‘need’ to buy outright. Why should you get everything and leave your EH with very little. If you can’t afford to buy, you will be expected to rent.

His £120k pension and you get 40% is very generous. Why don’t you have a pension pot after you graduated from university? I’m assuming you didn’t go on mat leave (so not contribute to a pension) as soon as you graduated?

I can understand why he thinks you are being greedy.

My DH’s EW wanted it all and didn’t want to go back to work - here is an example of what she wanted and what the court awarded at the final hearing (she was offered more during the discussions but refused to even consider it).

They had been married 9 years, kids were 11 & 8 at the time of the consent order finances. EW hasn’t worked for 11 years and refused to get a job. She had no pensions.

She wanted:
• 70% of FMH equity (£210k) on sale
• She stay in the FMH for a further 10 years
• EH pay for the mortgage in full over those 10 years
• Spousal maintenance of £12k per year
• A lump sum of £3k
• A new car
• £1k per month CM

The judge awarded:
• 62.5% of FMH equity on sale
• EH agreed she could stay in the FMH for 4 years
• She had to pay the mortgage in that time
• No spousal maintenance - she was told to get a job and start supporting herself
• No lump sum
• No new car
• £750 pcm CM was awarded

The reality is on divorce both parties become worse off and you will need to start supporting yourself.

Are any of your family able to help?
Has there been any talk of him having the kids for more time? It does seem like men get the easy option by being allowed to be very part time parents.

Gosh I don’t think you realise how privileged you’ve been so far.

I have two women friends both divorcing their husbands , one worked PT and the other was a SAHM for 12 years both of their children are older though and at University. Both want more cash out of the marital home and both are in negotiation via solicitors. The fees are eye watering, every single, letter, hour or email costs it’s in your best interests to be realistic and currently you just aren’t.

I think you are being really unfair asking for that split...he's offered you 70% which I think is more than fair.

You have two children at school so you should be able to get a job at least part time so you can pay a small mortgage.

You cannot expect to get so much and leave him with so little.

I really feel for you OP. It's fair enough for others to point out that this man doesn't have to financially support you but he does need to step up as a parent. While your negotiations are taking place take the opportunity to reorganise the childcare arrangements. He wants your life (and your DCs) to drastically change but not his. He'll have to have the DC more and do all the corresponding pick ups, drop offs and after school activities if you are expected to get a FT job. I'd also take this chance to review your job opportunities, maybe look for a job where you can WFH and earn more. I hope you find a good solution and eventual happiness @NSwiftie85

@mumstheword223 she has a part time job

Unvested shares don't count towards marital assets because there's no guarantee they will vest. It's also difficult to value them for obvious reasons + as poster above mentioned, he will be taxed on them if/when they do vest. If he's got vested unsold shares, they will count though, worth checking.

The OP should try to get him to do more with the children to allow her to build her career and income. Unfortunately there is no way to force the other parent to take on any responsibility other than paying child support.

This is a case where two adults with agency need to own the fact they decided one would be homemaker and one would be a bread winner. This decision has consequences for both of them in divorce. The marital asset pool is insufficient to fund what they want, the OP is a low earner and he tied to a demanding job.

The sooner they get on board with the implications of that the better for the children. They shouldn’t have to live through the acrimony which is far more harmful than a house move or a bit of downsizing.

I completely agree that neither of them should now double down and insist on being primarily a bread winner or home maker and expect that to fund two homes. It won’t.

In his case he is moving on and found a good set up. It’s clear his new partner is pushing for a clean break and that’s why he has made a decent offer. I don’t think it’s a great offer and I think the OP could push for a bit more. But it’s probably not worth going to court over because what she could gain could be more than wiped out by fees. She could easily end up with less and fees.

You should absolutely bite off his hand at what he's offering you.

@LemonTT I don't see the OP getting more than what is being offered on her ex's income. The courts can be generous to the weaker financial party and don't tend to ask many questions as to why they are the weaker (i.e. someone who is a chronic alcoholic will get their needs assessed in exactly the same way as a dedicated full time parent who actively supported their other half) but if they were any more generous than the offer on the table then OP's ex could be left in a position where he would never catch her up which would be quite unfair, especially if he was carrying all the risk of future employment.

Certainly there was a time when the OP might have ended up with more of the assets and maybe even joint lives spousal maintenance but the kind of judges who awarded those kind of settlements are retired now and attitudes have changed. When they were awarding those kind of settlements, it was still the attitude that women never went back to full time work after children. Nowadays, the expectation is everyone has a career and should stand on their own two feet.

The other thing is that no matter how much he has wronged you, you are now no longer a couple. What he does with is money- how he spends it, where he goes etc is no longer your business. It’s galling yes, but if you can try to detach from all of that it will help you to move forward more quickly on the road to becoming an independent single parent.

100% this.

My DH's ex-wife dragged everything through the courts because she thought she was entitled to a desperately unfair split. Very similar to OP here.

She ended up with exactly 50/50, which was lower than several offers that had been made in mediation. (Not to mention less the extortionate lawyer fees on both sides).

Why would he do the school run if you aren't working?

You need to start thinking like a single person. How to manage your life for those 10 days/fortnight without relying on him. And how to maximise your income.

I think it is a decent offer and I doubt it will improve in court. I did say it could get worse and that is a distinct possibility.

But I think her ex and his new partner want to move on and get things settled. If she pushed on one thing, not everything as she doing, I think he might bend. If he doesn’t then she should seriously think about settling.

@LemonTT Ah, I see where you are coming from now. Yes, he may be a little flexible although it sounds like he's compromised a bit already. I think new partners tend to help people see things objectively too so whereas he may previously have been willing to make a bad deal for himself, that opportunity will have passed.

As a former family law solicitor - 70% FMH, 40% pension sounds like a pretty good deal for you. He isn't low balling you.

You might as well have a go at asking for a bit more - say 75% FMH, 40% pension - and he might go for it to avoid paying more legal fees.

But I wouldn't take the piss or he may take it to court and he might well end up with a better deal than he has offered you.

It may not be your preference but it's unlikely the court is going to tell him he needs to support you to work part time with kids in primary - they can go to wraparound care or you can find something higher earning so you can afford your choice to be part time. It's normal for primary age children to be in childcare.

You could look into some sort of retraining to up your earning potential especially since you do have a degree. Don't accept earning minimum wage forever.

It does all remind me why I left family law.

So frustrating sitting in meetings being told by unrealistic clients that obviously it's not possible to work except 10-2 in term time while my primary age and younger children were in childcare ..

I hear you! I think it's been great seeing more women join the bench to roll their eyes at these unreasonable demands. A male judge with a wife at home tended to see things quite differently to the working mums who make up a decent chunk of the district judges today.

For sure!
There's only 1 (presumably late) primary age kid here, other already in secondary. It would be unfair for the exH to support the OP to work very part time for much longer.

You've had a good deal OP. He's not exactly earning millions , a decent salary yes but nothing out of the ordinary really.

Hi, sorry you’re going through this. What you’re asking for is unreasonable based on the information you’re disclosed. Both need to complete form e & get full disclosure - you can self represent rather than using a solicitor. You would be expected to maximise your income. Some mortgage lenders will take into account CMS/UC etc for a mortgage, you will need to obtain a mortgage capacity report. If your capacity is £50k you’ll only need £150k of the equity for example. Pension will be 50:50 but could be offset for more equity (this won’t be on a £1 for £1 basis though). His shares will be factored in.