Financial split in divorce

[NSwiftie85]

Hello MN,

First time reluctant poster so hope I'm doing this right. Desperate for some advice from you ladies (and gents) as I'm totally at my wits end here!

Currently going through what is a fairly acrimonious divorce with STBXH. Or should I say it has become acrimonious more recently since we got the conditional order and started to discuss finances.

We have a long marriage, nearly 15 years, and 2 children one in primary and one in secondary school. They both live with me but spend 4-5 days every fortnight at dad's (he pays CM according to calculator for it).

I live in the FMH which has c.£250k equity and a mortgage of c.£200k outstanding. ExH pays the mortgage in full even if we own jointly and he has moved out and renting because I cannot afford it really. Recently, he has become increasingly pushy to move to sell the house and split the money but there isn't enough equity for me to buy an equivalent 3bed for me and the kids. I have been a SAHM since my eldest was born, I have a university degree but never really had much of a career before giving birth tbh. So my earnings are limited at best, further so by the fact that I need to do the school run and can't afford clubs etc. so can only work PT during term time. I use benefits and the CM to top up my income but it's not much, is it!

So I have asked to get a fixed £200k in order to buy a 2bed property outright without mortgage, which sent him flying off the hinges. He says that leaves him with barely anything to buy for himself as the house may not sell at maximum value, there are fees and an early repayment charge, etc. He wants a % split but how can I be sure it will give me enough funds to house myself! He says there are 2bed properties that cost less than 200k and that I should also work FT and get a small mortgage. But he has a much higher mortgage capacity (I have next to none).

He earns 85k + some company benefits + cash bonus bringing him to almost 100k a year. He also gets stock compensation from his employer but none of it is available to sell for the next few years at least and he will lose it if he is fired or quits so he claims it's irrelevant, I don't think so!

He has received cetv for his pensions and they come to about 120k, which he's offered me only 40% of since "it's easier to just transfer you one of the two" 🙄 I have asked for 50%.

So as I said, I'm at my wits end as to what to do. Ideally, I would like to stay in the FMH with the kids for their stability but can't afford it unless he supports. If the house is to be sold, I need 200k+ to rehome myself. He has offered me 60% of the house and then upped it to 70% but I think I need 80% and ideally would have a fixed sum and not %. I also want more from his pension and some of his stocks which he is hell bent against. He is now threatening me with court proceedings saying I'm not flexible and willing to negotiate and while I have a solicitor, he is saying that he can't advise me without exchanging form E and wants to charge me nearly a grand for it. Both me and STBXH have provided basic disclosure forms to one another (D81). I feel my requests are reasonable but I want to make sure me and my kids are protected. At the same time, ExH is effectively gaslighting me calling me greedy etc.

I'm just so emotionally drained from it all and just want it to go away. My mental health has really deteriorated stressing about it and under the pressure ExH keeps applying onto me. I have no friends to confide in and my family lives away in a different part of the country so it just feels so lonely and scary but I need to keep strong for my boys. So can you please advise me what is reasonable for me to ask for in my situation based on your experiences?

The courts prefer a clean break settlement.

You are very unlikely to be able to stay in the FMH as it is very unlikely a court would ask him to pay ongoing support and defer the sale.

Therefore you are probably best to plan for when not if it is sold (unless you want to buy him out or he wants to buy you out neither of which sound likely).

You may find it helpful to look at the total assets of the marriage. For most marriages this is the fmh and pensions. Pensions are of limited use in separation as they don't help you house yourself. So generally immediate assets are split in such a way that both parties can house themselves.

If the immediate assets are 200k and you are asking for all of this it's unlikely to be considered reasonable.

I think you're unlikely to be awarded enough to buy a home outright, if that leaves him with nothing. I do think you're entitled to more than half, but not everything.

What does your solicitor say?

Both of you have to undertaken that it isn't for you to decide. You both fill in a form E and both your solicitors then work out a fair split.

My now ex h is annoyed I can buy a house outright and he can't but that because I'm using my brain and moving to where I can and buying smaller than I have no. He also lost six figures so no sympathy.

Sadly as much as none of us want our standard of living to go down it is a certainty that divorce makes you poorer. The usual starting point is 50/50 and the aim is to provide you both with a fair settlement. Your pension amount needs to be set against his and then split hence the Form E.

As regards the house it is complicated.You need to discuss the various options for yourself with your lawyer.

www.tayntons.co.uk/who-gets-the-house-in-a-divorce-with-children/#:~:text=The%20family%20home%20is%20usually,welfare%20of%20any%20children%20involved.

You will be expected to look for work to support yourself. There are many people who would like to work part time only but cannot afford to do so. A job and child support from your husband should see you through. Why should you expect benefits?

Thank you for the replies so far 💐 I understand there is an associated decrease in living standard but clearly I am the far more vulnerable party here who can't even afford to advance proceedings if things turn sour 🥲

My solicitor says that I'm likely to get more of the pot but can't tell me how much or propose a split unless we exchange form E and he charges me 1k for it. Which I can't afford right now so been going off basic disclosures so far.

ExH will get between 20k and 50k from the house under my proposal of me getting 200k. It depends on how much it sells for but I consider it fair as I could buy something small outright and he can have a deposit for a mortgage. He claims I need less than 200k to buy (I disagree, we live in a posh suburban area with high house prices) and also that I can take a small mortgage based on my PT salary + UC + CM (it's about 2k a month in total but don't think lenders will accept benefits and I can't work more right now).

Then I think we should split his pension down the middle (I have no pension of my own) and get some share of his stocks, which he claims is unfair as they're not "vested" and as he has technically been paying the full mortgage on FMH and his rent for over a year so I "owe" him..

I don’t think you are being realistic in expecting that you shouldn’t either compromise on what you want or make changes to your life to pay for what you want.

The statement that you can only work PT during term time whilst wanting to live practically mortgage free is not achievable on your income and the money you and your husband and accrued during your marriage.

But there are things you can do to change your circumstances.

increase your income if you want a larger property so you can get a mortgage. Or reduce your outgoings by moving to a smaller property. Realistically you will be expected to do both.

He shouldn’t call you greedy but I don’t think he is gaslighting. Life changes when you divorce. You will get a larger share of the assets. But that will be calculated on the basis of a maximised income and minimised outgoings.

IME women who take the lions share of the house often have to let him keep his pension.

Also, remember that your circumstances now aren't forever, in fact they're for a very short time. Once DC are at secondary school, you absolutely can work FT.

Have a read of the Advice Now guides linked at the top of the thread (in tiny writing under the topic name). The free versions will give you what you need. They give examples of what are a fair split. You are going to have to lower your expectations. Work out what is more important to you. If you want to be housed, then give up the pension so you can have more equity. You've got plenty of time to start a career and save for your own pension.

I don’t think you are being fair asking for 90% of the equity. He isn’t gaslighting you. You will have to work more and get a mortgage

I think you may be misunderstanding the way the process works.

If you and your "d"h want to get divorced then in an ideal world you agree about child custody and the financial split. Then you don't have to spend too much money on lawyers and it's "just" the admin cost of getting the divorce.

If you don't agree you have to go to mediation before you go to court. Mediation costs money. Around 100-140 an hour.

If you don't agree in mediation then you go to court and all the forms need to be filled in and you need to pay solicitors for their time at 250 quid or so an hour.

He doesn't have to agree to any of your proposals no matter how reasonable you think they are. You are going to need money for the divorce anyway (minimum of admin fee).

If you can't afford 1k for the form E then the costs of actually going to court will be a shock.

If you are on benefits then you can absolutely claim for childcare costs & they cover about 85% of the costs. Surely there will also be time with their dad which allows you to work also.

Benefits are taken into account by some mortgage providers. You would need to discuss this was an independent financial advisor.

He seems to be quite reasonable tbh but if you feel he isn't, then you can only really pay to proceed with full financial disclosure

What is your husband saying about completing Form E?

You are being completely unrealistic and unreasonable in your expectations

your husband is right / you’ll need to work ft and start paying your way

its highly unlikely you’ll be awarded anywhere near what you want

This thread tells you why higher earning men don't want to get married (thinking of the other thread of divorced man who doesn't want to marry again!)

You should get a full time job & wake up to the reality of life

And if you get the lions share of house you’ll probably be awarded v little pension. You won’t get both

We have an informal childcare agreement where he has them for 4 days every fortnight and he pays child maintenance accordingly. He also pays for 1 day a week afterschool club for our youngest on my day nut has threatened to pull out since I'm being "unreasonable". I wish he could have the kids more so I could work more but he claims he needs to work. In reality, he just prefer spending time with his new fling...

We have discussed finances between us several times as I am keen on a clean break and avoiding solicitor costs. I have told him that I want 200k and 50% of his pension verbally multiple times. He clearly doesn't agree and his solicitor has written me several letter with various, lower proposals e.g. 70% FMH, 40% pension, to which I have not responded as they are materially lower. The way his letters read feel very threatening giving me deadlines to either agree or they'll do xyz, which is why I haven't been communicating back. He is now threatening to take me to court, again since I'm being "unreasonable" because I refuse to be bullied into submission just because I'm the weaker party financially.

Based on what you've said here ladies, what % of the house should I go for in order to get this done and over with? Do I have a chance to get 75% FMH and 50% pension if I leave the shares for example? 🤔

I think that your expectations are unrealistic. If you want more equity then you should ask for less than 50% of his pension to be fair.
If the secondary school child is exam year then I’d be asking ex to pay until they completed their exams. If you can’t buy in your current area then you need to consider moving to a cheaper area or a 2 bed. You’re not “owed” a 3 bed house in the same area post divorce. People are usually poorer and need to make compromises for a cheaper standard of living.

Your focus needs to be on increasing income if you can’t cut costs .

70% FMH, 40% pension In all honesty, that seems like a generous offer to me and I'm not surprised they're putting deadlines on it. The longer it takes the more it costs.

No
75% of house and 50# pension is too high. You should be looking to something more like 60:40 and getting a full time job!

She's been offered better than that!

I find your post to be quite rude frankly when you don't know much about my situation altogether. I gave that man my best years, raised his kids and enabled his career. Meanwhile, now that I'm older and not so attractive anymore, he has found it so easy to just discard me (and no, we aren't divorcing because of infidelity, yet he has all so quickly managed to move on while I struggle to make ends meet with my children). Why shouldn't I be knowing my worth and trying to secure the best for me and those poor kids then?

I know! Which she should grab cos if it goes to court I think it will get worse for her. That’s a (too) generous offer

He’s not unreasonable putting deadlines on things, you’re refusing to engage and he’s paying the full mortgage, maintenance and his own rent. No one’s going to be happy with that longer than absolutely necessary.