Financial split in divorce

[NSwiftie85]

Hello MN,

First time reluctant poster so hope I'm doing this right. Desperate for some advice from you ladies (and gents) as I'm totally at my wits end here!

Currently going through what is a fairly acrimonious divorce with STBXH. Or should I say it has become acrimonious more recently since we got the conditional order and started to discuss finances.

We have a long marriage, nearly 15 years, and 2 children one in primary and one in secondary school. They both live with me but spend 4-5 days every fortnight at dad's (he pays CM according to calculator for it).

I live in the FMH which has c.£250k equity and a mortgage of c.£200k outstanding. ExH pays the mortgage in full even if we own jointly and he has moved out and renting because I cannot afford it really. Recently, he has become increasingly pushy to move to sell the house and split the money but there isn't enough equity for me to buy an equivalent 3bed for me and the kids. I have been a SAHM since my eldest was born, I have a university degree but never really had much of a career before giving birth tbh. So my earnings are limited at best, further so by the fact that I need to do the school run and can't afford clubs etc. so can only work PT during term time. I use benefits and the CM to top up my income but it's not much, is it!

So I have asked to get a fixed £200k in order to buy a 2bed property outright without mortgage, which sent him flying off the hinges. He says that leaves him with barely anything to buy for himself as the house may not sell at maximum value, there are fees and an early repayment charge, etc. He wants a % split but how can I be sure it will give me enough funds to house myself! He says there are 2bed properties that cost less than 200k and that I should also work FT and get a small mortgage. But he has a much higher mortgage capacity (I have next to none).

He earns 85k + some company benefits + cash bonus bringing him to almost 100k a year. He also gets stock compensation from his employer but none of it is available to sell for the next few years at least and he will lose it if he is fired or quits so he claims it's irrelevant, I don't think so!

He has received cetv for his pensions and they come to about 120k, which he's offered me only 40% of since "it's easier to just transfer you one of the two" 🙄 I have asked for 50%.

So as I said, I'm at my wits end as to what to do. Ideally, I would like to stay in the FMH with the kids for their stability but can't afford it unless he supports. If the house is to be sold, I need 200k+ to rehome myself. He has offered me 60% of the house and then upped it to 70% but I think I need 80% and ideally would have a fixed sum and not %. I also want more from his pension and some of his stocks which he is hell bent against. He is now threatening me with court proceedings saying I'm not flexible and willing to negotiate and while I have a solicitor, he is saying that he can't advise me without exchanging form E and wants to charge me nearly a grand for it. Both me and STBXH have provided basic disclosure forms to one another (D81). I feel my requests are reasonable but I want to make sure me and my kids are protected. At the same time, ExH is effectively gaslighting me calling me greedy etc.

I'm just so emotionally drained from it all and just want it to go away. My mental health has really deteriorated stressing about it and under the pressure ExH keeps applying onto me. I have no friends to confide in and my family lives away in a different part of the country so it just feels so lonely and scary but I need to keep strong for my boys. So can you please advise me what is reasonable for me to ask for in my situation based on your experiences?

as a single parent that’s been through a divorce I can tell you they expect 30 hours of work a week if you have school age children and that’s not full time

Thanks ladies, I really appreciate your opinions. While some of it is probably not what I want to hear, it may be a wake up call that I'm just too much in my emotions to untangle this mess properly.

I just can't help with how much things have changed over the past 15 months since we agreed to split up. Initially, he was very amicable and made certain promises to me. Like he was paying the mortgage AND house bills, he used to overpay CMS while the kids and I adjust.

But things have changed drastically since he got with his new partner (who I believe but cannot prove he had lined up already in the wings) and he's gone back on all those promises and reassurances. For example, he had agreed to do the school run most days since he WFH but after an argument we had he refuses to do that unless it's "his" days and even on those sometimes I need to pick the little one up since he shows up late from his gfs. He gradually withdrew from commitments to the FMH outside of the mortgage as he claims he cannot afford to keep up and since he claims im not being cooperative, which feels financially controlling of him. I know that he is enjoying his life and isn't pressed for buck. He went on an really expensive summer holiday with the gf while claiming he is on a business trip 🙄, they eat out at fancy restaurants all the time..

There are more things in between including that I know for a fact that he can't wait to be rid of me financially and he will readily move in with his new partner (who btw in her own right is wealthy and a much higher earner than him) and while they enjoy a lavish lifestyle, I would have to get creative to make it through the month. My prospects arent great even if I have time to retirement. While I have a degree, I have never had a job in the field, just menial ones and then I became a SAHM cause at the time we had far less and it just made sense.

i know courts don't care about any of that but it feels so unfair and aggravating and the trust between us is completely gone as a result. So whenever he offers something on the table, my instinct is immediately that he is somehow trying to trick me. Some here have also been quick to bash me for it but I can't help how helpless, lonely and scared I feel amidst it all.

Maybe I need to call my solicitor again on Monday and agree to the voluntary exchange of form E to get things going even if it means spending my last savings. I would still try to get 200k which is 80% of the house to ensure a proper roof over my and my children's heads but per your advice may need to compromise on the remainder.

Thank you all once again and sorry for the wall of text. I will update what the solicitor advised on Monday.

This is incorrect. When the children are at secondary school OP will be expected to work full time. At primary school, the OP might not be expected to work full time but will probably be expected to work almost full time and use wraparound care. The school holiday argument that sometimes gets raised hasn't carried much sway with judges for years either.

@NSwiftie85 I'm a paralegal at a national law firm and I spend a lot of my time proofreading consent orders. Occasionally someone unreasonable is daft enough to go to a final hearing and ends up spending their share of the equity on our annual bonuses but this is quite rare.

I don't know your full circumstances so I don't know what is fair but unless there are unusual circumstances (e.g. his income is being understated or you have a severe and debilitating condition) I would bite his hand off for an offer of 40% pension and 70% equity. You won't get a mortgage free house as you'll be expected to work and that will mean you have some mortgage capacity, although I don't know enough about your circumstances to know what that is.

You chose not to work because that was what you wanted. It didn’t pan out but you aren’t a victim of his career.

You need to get a full time job because you can’t afford to work PT. There are lots of threads on here about how parent’s (mums!) navigate single parenthood and working.

Asking for 75-90% of the equity is unreasonable so you need to start grappling with how you make a more realistic financial scenario work.

I’m really sorry you find yourself in this position.

So he's offering 70% of the house (£175k) and pension worth £48k?

That seems fair. Your expectations are entirely unrealistic.

In your shoes I'd offer to give up the claim on his pension entirely for a higher share of money from the house.

OP have you spoken to your GP about some support with your mental health? I had some counselling when I was getting a divorce and it really did help.

Sorry I think you are being a bit delusional and you are going to have to wisen up and toughen up fast

You'll be expected to work full time and use appropriate childcare - your older child won't need any childcare and the younger may not either depending on age

£50k for him to buy an appropriate home for the children to stay probably isn't enough either on his salary. You are lucky he has paid CMS and all the mortgage - he has been under no obligation to do so and no he didn't have to do the school runs on "Your" days. He could easily go for 50/50 custody and then no CMS would be payable at all

You didn't have to not work in over a decade - that was your choice and you've enjoyed over a decade of the benefits of it but now it has left you very vulnerable

You are going to need to reconcile a change in living standards as well as selling the home.

I would just like to add that even if he did get 50/50 of the kids which he won’t because he’s too busy with the new woman if he’s a high earner he probably will still have to pay CM

I don’t think he is a high enough earner for that.

It should be noted however that the CMS calculation is based on a gross weekly income which is capped at £3,000. Therefore, if the non-resident parent earns £156,000 or more per annum, it may be appropriate to apply for a top-up order from the court.

@DeepRoseFish she will be assessed on her ability to work ft

once children hit primary a court will deem her capable of working ft and won’t penalise an ex to support her if she chooses not to do so.

It’s not unreasonable that after 15 mionths of paying he’s saying no more and you need to reach a conclusion. His partner earnings are irrelevant perhaps his girlfriend is encouraging ihis or perhaps ( rightly) he’s just had enough

what steps have you taken in the last 15 months to improve your income and work ?

you can improve your finances by actually working ft and not expecting to be funded forever. If you want more income go earn it

@NSwiftie85 unvested shares means he doesn’t have them yet. Eg you might get an award but it is granted 33% per year over next three years, starting next year. And you get taxed on their value when awarded. Then you can sell them once you have them. So they are not money in your pocket as such.

If he wants you to earn more then he needs to pay for some childcare. Or step up. Of course if you both worked full time you’d probably end up splitting equity 50:50. Will you solicitor agree to wait until the divorce is settled for payment? It sounds like you should do the Form E but it also sounds like DH is keen to rush you into accepting his terms - is he offering to complete his Form E? If you can’t have a conversation that results in an agreement then it might be the best way, but I’d be asking for a fixed fee from the solicitor maybe. Divorce itself
is not expensive you can do it online on .GOV but the letters back and forth cost a fortune!

Why do people think she will be expected to work full time. She has a child in primary school. She will not be expected to work any more than 30 hours a week and she will be expected to use UC to top up her income.

So no she does not have to work full time. She can chose to do so but she definitely will not be expected to.

But the fact that she chooses not to won't entitle her to 100% of the value of the house. She'll be expected to cut her cloth according to her income/benefits.

Surely everything will be split 50/50. That's the fairest way. You need to get a job. Could you stay with a parent until you have a job. Then you can get a small mortgage. You could rent but it would not be a great idea as rent it v expensive and you don't want the instability.

he had agreed to do the school run most days since he wfh
Well does that not scupper your argument that it's pivotal you're at home for the dc? If he's doing the school run and is at home for them as he wfh? What exactly stops you getting a ft job?

This I think a compromise on this will help I would focus on the equity to hiuse yourself and then give him more pension

You'll be able to claim universal credit which will give you 80% of childcare fees, your can claim that even when working and earning upto £50,000 per year. So you would be able to work more than just school hours. Have a look into wrap around care and holiday clubs.

Citizens advice are great at doing a benefit calculator to work out how much UC you'd be able to claim. The online calculators that you can do tend to be inaccurate.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/universal-credit/

Because of all the divorces I ever seen has resulted in that - even my sister who had two v young primary children was told she could and should expect to work ft and the settlement was based on that. And there have been numerous others. Gone are the days where men are expected to hand over everything to keep ex at home not supporting herself

op ex is not a high earner ( in eyes of law)
they have sane housing needed yes his mortgage caisvity is higher but op can work for but us choosing not to. She can’t expect to have sane lifestyle if she doesn’t want to work !

How old are you both? That's relevant.

Divorce can be horrendous especially when one party, usually the woman, feels vulnerable.

Regrettably courts have moved to a less favourable position for women. The expectation is to maximise your income and that's means average salary. With CMS you should have a reasonable income to afford a small mortgage. Have you been to a mortgage broker, or tried online calculators? It would be expected that you do this.

Whilst now you feel vulnerable you CAN rebuild your life, it may appear daunting but if you are under 40 you have at least 40plus years of life ahead of you.

I understand the feelings you have that trust has been broken but reality is he has moved on (often men do this brutally) and you will have to find a way forward

In addition to CMS can you get a commitment for 50% of school trips as these can get expensive in later years.

It’s unrealistic to expect to continue to work part time and term time only with one primary age child. Unless you’re earning less than minimum wage it’s not likely that the cost of after wraparound care for one child for what will be a few years at most would exceed an increase in salary from increasing your working hours. You’ve got a far better chance of building a successful career for your future too if not limiting yourself to PT term time only work.

@Livinghappy why is it 'regrettable' that the expectation is for both parties to seek to support themselves with FT work?

We appreciate that your court were satisfied that it was not reasonable you could work full time, but please don’t assume that this will apply to OP.

It seems her older child is 15 or so, and her younger may be 10 or 11. If you had a 4 and 6 year old, different. If you had a 30h a week job, that is 4 days a week. OP has just said “part time” and I believe it is a term time only job (though haven’t checked back) - this will be much less than 30h a week on average.

Probably because this is the norm. Most families cannot afford one person to work part time after divorce. Presumably you could because there was enough to go around for both households but it does depend on the circumstances.

Also, I note you earlier said school age and now say primary. It's an important distinction; some people might be able to work a little less until their children are in secondary school. But it will still be 30 hours a week and not term time only so we're looking at the equivalent of about 85% of full time. Once tax is factored in, the expectation is that someone is earning about 90% of a full time wage and topping up the rest in benefits. This makes the impact of full time Vs part time on asset shares quite limited in a lot of cases.

I have told him that I want 200k and 50% of his pension verbally multiple times.

You can say it as much as you want, it doesn’t mean it’s reasonable!

You want to come out of this marriage with a mortgage-free home, that’s not going to happen. You need to work full time and use childcare, then get a mortgage.

Are you still not working at all now-with two school-age children?

You’re in danger of spending any equity you might be entitled to on lawyer fees!