Financial split in divorce

[NSwiftie85]

Hello MN,

First time reluctant poster so hope I'm doing this right. Desperate for some advice from you ladies (and gents) as I'm totally at my wits end here!

Currently going through what is a fairly acrimonious divorce with STBXH. Or should I say it has become acrimonious more recently since we got the conditional order and started to discuss finances.

We have a long marriage, nearly 15 years, and 2 children one in primary and one in secondary school. They both live with me but spend 4-5 days every fortnight at dad's (he pays CM according to calculator for it).

I live in the FMH which has c.£250k equity and a mortgage of c.£200k outstanding. ExH pays the mortgage in full even if we own jointly and he has moved out and renting because I cannot afford it really. Recently, he has become increasingly pushy to move to sell the house and split the money but there isn't enough equity for me to buy an equivalent 3bed for me and the kids. I have been a SAHM since my eldest was born, I have a university degree but never really had much of a career before giving birth tbh. So my earnings are limited at best, further so by the fact that I need to do the school run and can't afford clubs etc. so can only work PT during term time. I use benefits and the CM to top up my income but it's not much, is it!

So I have asked to get a fixed £200k in order to buy a 2bed property outright without mortgage, which sent him flying off the hinges. He says that leaves him with barely anything to buy for himself as the house may not sell at maximum value, there are fees and an early repayment charge, etc. He wants a % split but how can I be sure it will give me enough funds to house myself! He says there are 2bed properties that cost less than 200k and that I should also work FT and get a small mortgage. But he has a much higher mortgage capacity (I have next to none).

He earns 85k + some company benefits + cash bonus bringing him to almost 100k a year. He also gets stock compensation from his employer but none of it is available to sell for the next few years at least and he will lose it if he is fired or quits so he claims it's irrelevant, I don't think so!

He has received cetv for his pensions and they come to about 120k, which he's offered me only 40% of since "it's easier to just transfer you one of the two" 🙄 I have asked for 50%.

So as I said, I'm at my wits end as to what to do. Ideally, I would like to stay in the FMH with the kids for their stability but can't afford it unless he supports. If the house is to be sold, I need 200k+ to rehome myself. He has offered me 60% of the house and then upped it to 70% but I think I need 80% and ideally would have a fixed sum and not %. I also want more from his pension and some of his stocks which he is hell bent against. He is now threatening me with court proceedings saying I'm not flexible and willing to negotiate and while I have a solicitor, he is saying that he can't advise me without exchanging form E and wants to charge me nearly a grand for it. Both me and STBXH have provided basic disclosure forms to one another (D81). I feel my requests are reasonable but I want to make sure me and my kids are protected. At the same time, ExH is effectively gaslighting me calling me greedy etc.

I'm just so emotionally drained from it all and just want it to go away. My mental health has really deteriorated stressing about it and under the pressure ExH keeps applying onto me. I have no friends to confide in and my family lives away in a different part of the country so it just feels so lonely and scary but I need to keep strong for my boys. So can you please advise me what is reasonable for me to ask for in my situation based on your experiences?

This post is so true!

Your expectations are way too high!
You've raised children I get but you could of still chose to work.
As previous posters have said expecting that much and half of his pension isn't realistic or how it normally goes. If it goes to court which it could if you don't agree it's very expensive and you won't end up with a say.
I don't see why you think your entitled to half of his pension that he's worked hard for.

@DoreenonTill8 I think* *courts have moved quite quickly to a position where the resident parent has to solider the responsibility for full-time work & childcare. This is a change over the last 15 years and the Op was probadly unaware when she made a decision to be a SAHP.

Courts can't force a parent (usually Dads) to do 50% of childcare so I would encourage all women to maintain financial independence.

One thing I don't understand is why everyone is so hung up on my working hours. My kids are 13 and 9, the youngest still needs a lot of support and care, like someone to pick him up from school, fix him a meal and spend time with him doing homework and stuff. Holidays we have 50/50 so on my week of having the kids, I don't work as someone needs to take care of them! Both boys also have clubs and activities, which while their dad pays for, fall largely onto me to bring them to and from since unless he is with them in his total of 8 days a month (4 of which are weekends), he CHOOSES to spend his time miles away with his new girlfriend and offers me zero flexibility. And last but not least, it's not like childcare is abundantly available or affordable in my area. Hence I work 9.30-2.30pm during school weeks only.

I am of course looking to earn more in time, for example when the youngest starts secondary, but right now I'm between a rock and a hard place. And it's not as if working FT I'll suddenly match his high earner salary, if anything I will still be getting minimum wage, which is unlikely to afford me much of a mortgage!

Married couples who both work struggle to afford mortgages bills childcare etc. but you do need to lower your expectations. No judge would give you the money to buy somewhere out right. You may have to have a mortgage, and realise you may have to move slightly to afford that or make cut backs in other areas to be able to afford your mortgage. It's life and it happens. But court solicitors etc could cost you thousands and thousands and you could end up with a worse deal then your being offered so you need to really consider it.

I think you need to adjust your mindset into being around the kids outside of a normal working day, not one that ends at 2.30. I’m a lone parent working full time, and of course I made meals, helped with homework, took them to clubs/hobbies etc. But after I got home from work at 6 and at weekends. The kids were in breakfast/after school clubs and holiday clubs until they were old enough to stay at home by themselves.

My kids are 13 and 9, the youngest still needs a lot of support and care, like someone to pick him up from school, fix him a meal and spend time with him doing homework and stuff.
However do you think single parents who have to work full time cope?

People are picking in your hours be if your complete unreasonableness to see that you can’t afford to not work full time - or completely downsize your life and outgoings. You want your ex to hand over practically all the assets to allow you to continue. That is not feasible or fair or realistic.

Your children are not 2. You can work full time but are choosing not to and you won’t get higher settlement because of that

Op, kindly - people are asking about your working hours because you will need to earn more as a sole breadwinner in your household.

@NSwiftie85 People are fixating on your working hours because that is what a court is going to do if it gets that far. They won't do it by ordering you to work but rather they will base your settlement on your earning capacity rather than what you earn.

If you are lucky, they will just take your 5 hours a day term time only and work out what the hourly rate is and then work out what you would earn at that hourly rate 6-7 hours a day 52 weeks a year. However, as you have a degree and because the sort of hours you work might be limiting your options, they might also consider what kind of higher paid work you can do in the foreseeable future. That will be your earning capacity and from that stems your net income and your mortgage capacity on which the split will be based. So, whilst they cannot force you (or him) to work they can put you in a position where you have no other choice if you want to maintain something close to your standard of living.

What will not happen is that they make him take a hit to his standard of living because you refuse to maximise your earning capacity and things like clubs, school holidays etc will most likely be waved away with you being told to use childcare like other parents in your position.

This might not be the message you want to hear but I'm trying to do my best to see you spend your share of the equity on a house rather than a lawyer.

OP unfortunately you seem to be under the impression life will remain the same for you as a single parent, but it just won’t.
It’s to be very different and once you accept that, hopefully you can move forward. You are going to have to work more hours.

What will not happen is that they make him take a hit to his standard of living because you refuse to maximise your earning capacity

This. You seem to be under the impression that he will just have to pay more because you don’t fancy working more than part time hours, term time only!

People are hung up on your hours because you are expecting your ex to fund you working PT. It doesn’t work like that. He has no responsibility towards you now.

It is perfectly possible to work FT with children your ages and posters are giving you advice about how to fund it and what you need to put in place.

It may not have been your choice to split but burying your head in the sand and stubbornly refusing to accept your new reality will only prolong the agony.

Op
You're absolutely dreaming if you think you will get what you're suggesting. The courts will absolutely expect you to work full time and a much fairer equity split.

New to this part of the forum. Is the tone on all of these threads so needlessly hostile to the OP?

Some posters are being bewilderingly rude. There is a real life person going through a tough time reading these, it wouldn't hurt to write with a bit of kindness even if you want to communicate the exact underlying point.

I don’t think it’s hostile. More realistic. Which is probably not whet the OP wants to hear but is necessary rather than spending thousands of pounds pursuing an unrealistic settlement.

I do sympathise with the situation though and understand it’s not the life you thought you’d signed up for.

If it helps

When my ex left me I had the give her 41% of the value of the house

I then had the kids living with me 7 days a week with no child maintenance from her as she did not get a job and just lived off the money I gave her

Go for the deal you can get not the deal you want

You will spend a lot of time effort and money fighting for something which will not happen

You can then move on with your life and start a new chapter

OP, as soon as I decided to divorce I got a full time job. I then sorted out my finances, ordered my CETVs and educated myself with the online guides on advice now so I could fill in form E without a solicitor.

You need to leave emotions at the door during divorce and stick to facts and the law. You will never get what you want, you at best need to hope somewhere in the middle

Regards to working etc. you need to put kids in breakfast and after school clubs and find a full time job, you cannot expect to work part time.

My ex left me with a primary aged child and newborn. I returned to work as soon as a nursery place became available and tax credits helped fund a large part of childcare. It wasn't easy, I was exhausted for years and caught up on chores and sleep when kids would go for a weekend to my ex every 3 weeks but you eventually get back on your feet

Sorry to sound harsh but you have unrealistic expectations 🫤

You’ll be expected to work FT to maximise your earnings.

You’re living in dreamland, tbh.

It'll be a 50/50 split between both your assets. After spending a load of money on my divorce my barrister, at the final hearing, told me outside the court room that unless there was documented abuse it would be split straight down the middle. There wasn't so it was, the leeches never told me that earlier for obvious reasons.
The judge actually told both legal parties to stop "milking the cow" and come to an agreement we did within half an hour but it still cost us about 30 grand each over 10 years ago.

I'm sorry for what you're going through. I am starting a divorce too and it's rough.

I am a bit bewildered though at your insistence you can't work full time when you have 2 DC. I have a 5 year old and a 3 year old and both of me and H work full time. We use breakfast and after school clubs. I sometimes leave work early at 4 to take kids to clubs and then work again once they're in bed. It's tough and exhausting. But millions do it

I'm not saying all women/people should work full time with kids. I bet it's lovely to be there at 3pm every day to pick them up. But you genuinely sound like you can't imagine how you could poss work full time - when millions do with much much younger kids than yours.

You will never get almost all the equity in the house and 50% of everything else, don’t be unrealistic.

The truth is, a judge will tell you to get a full time job, and you’ll get 50% of the house and pensions.

The smartest thing for you to do here is to negotiate with your husband, take more or the equity to allow you to house yourself and leave him with his pension and shares.

If it gets to court, the only ones benefiting are the solicitors and barristers. I would rather use that 15 - 30k each to feather my nest.

You are going to have to work every week, you won't be able to afford to live otherwise. I would suggest on the 4 days he has them you work longer hours to balance out the week you have them, or work from home yourself part of the time.

Sadly divorce means everyone loses out to a degree, regardless of who is to blame, or what we all would like in an ideal world. Court is going to share the funds out as fairly as they can and they wont really care about either of your feelings.

Ask your ex directly if you agree to 75% of the house and 40% of his pension and no claim on shares as well as maintenance until children are finished school and or college would he agree to that, rather than paying a huge wad out in fees to solicitors.

Also remember to settle on access and school holiday access arrangements and college, birthdays, christmas, back to school fees as well as agreement on holidays abroad

You may as well wrap it up totally in go go

Op I feel for you I really do. Divorce is crap and everyone ends up financially worse off. Its just the way it is. You aren’t going to get what you are asking for and the only place it will end is in court with both of you ending up with less.

You have had some really good free legal advice here and I would really recommend that you take the emotion out of it all and listen. Forget your ex and think about yourself in five years.

A house that might have a small mortgage on but one that you have earned, where you chose to live, with a garden or something else for you to take joy in.

A job that brings you happiness and challenges you because I feel like you have lost confidence in your abilities. You have a degree, you are an intelligent capable woman but you need to believe in yourself.

Your boys as well adjusted young men with a mother who gets things done.

Wishing you the best.

@Unicorntearsofgin that’s a lovely post