Financial split in divorce

[NSwiftie85]

Hello MN,

First time reluctant poster so hope I'm doing this right. Desperate for some advice from you ladies (and gents) as I'm totally at my wits end here!

Currently going through what is a fairly acrimonious divorce with STBXH. Or should I say it has become acrimonious more recently since we got the conditional order and started to discuss finances.

We have a long marriage, nearly 15 years, and 2 children one in primary and one in secondary school. They both live with me but spend 4-5 days every fortnight at dad's (he pays CM according to calculator for it).

I live in the FMH which has c.£250k equity and a mortgage of c.£200k outstanding. ExH pays the mortgage in full even if we own jointly and he has moved out and renting because I cannot afford it really. Recently, he has become increasingly pushy to move to sell the house and split the money but there isn't enough equity for me to buy an equivalent 3bed for me and the kids. I have been a SAHM since my eldest was born, I have a university degree but never really had much of a career before giving birth tbh. So my earnings are limited at best, further so by the fact that I need to do the school run and can't afford clubs etc. so can only work PT during term time. I use benefits and the CM to top up my income but it's not much, is it!

So I have asked to get a fixed £200k in order to buy a 2bed property outright without mortgage, which sent him flying off the hinges. He says that leaves him with barely anything to buy for himself as the house may not sell at maximum value, there are fees and an early repayment charge, etc. He wants a % split but how can I be sure it will give me enough funds to house myself! He says there are 2bed properties that cost less than 200k and that I should also work FT and get a small mortgage. But he has a much higher mortgage capacity (I have next to none).

He earns 85k + some company benefits + cash bonus bringing him to almost 100k a year. He also gets stock compensation from his employer but none of it is available to sell for the next few years at least and he will lose it if he is fired or quits so he claims it's irrelevant, I don't think so!

He has received cetv for his pensions and they come to about 120k, which he's offered me only 40% of since "it's easier to just transfer you one of the two" 🙄 I have asked for 50%.

So as I said, I'm at my wits end as to what to do. Ideally, I would like to stay in the FMH with the kids for their stability but can't afford it unless he supports. If the house is to be sold, I need 200k+ to rehome myself. He has offered me 60% of the house and then upped it to 70% but I think I need 80% and ideally would have a fixed sum and not %. I also want more from his pension and some of his stocks which he is hell bent against. He is now threatening me with court proceedings saying I'm not flexible and willing to negotiate and while I have a solicitor, he is saying that he can't advise me without exchanging form E and wants to charge me nearly a grand for it. Both me and STBXH have provided basic disclosure forms to one another (D81). I feel my requests are reasonable but I want to make sure me and my kids are protected. At the same time, ExH is effectively gaslighting me calling me greedy etc.

I'm just so emotionally drained from it all and just want it to go away. My mental health has really deteriorated stressing about it and under the pressure ExH keeps applying onto me. I have no friends to confide in and my family lives away in a different part of the country so it just feels so lonely and scary but I need to keep strong for my boys. So can you please advise me what is reasonable for me to ask for in my situation based on your experiences?

If it’s acrimonious then you risk ex quitting his job so you don’t get any shares. I would want something more guaranteed like equity or pension over share options. Spiteful exes on here sometimes quit their jobs so that they don’t have to pay child maintenance. Child maintenance is based on a percentage of income and savings aren’t income.

Because you are trying to fleece him, expect him to pay for you, provide you money to live at standards you can’t afford, leaving him with practically none of the assets he’s worked to pay for , while supporting you to Stay at home, all the while claiming you can’t possibly work full time ( ridiculous statement)

yes you made it easier for him to work but he’s provided you financially to stay at home, benefitting you too.

you are not being fair

Echoing others.

It is hard to say exactly how the pension and house equity should balance out, but 70% and 40% seem pretty reasonable on the face of it. Are there other assets eg ISAs?

Regarding his share options, the courts may ascribe some value to these, but it would be reduced from their expected value as the company might go under, he might change job etc.

edited to correct an error

I don't know about the likely divorce split but you sound quite defeatist about your jo prospects. How old are you? If you had your first soon after university and they are a teenager, you are possibly under 40? You have time to find a way to earn a reasonable amount.
How far away is school, for the school run? Is it rally such a signifcant impedement to working more? I recognise that people keep their choices for good reasons are entitled to, but not working for 15 years as left you in a financially vulnerable position, and it seems you need to face this reality head on- you need to earn more money yourself. If your husband earns 85k, surely some wrapaaroud care is affordable to facilitate some childcare for this.

I got 55% of the house and 75% of his pension. He got 45% of the house and 125% of the other pension. He's got a lot more shares as well. But I went for guaranteed rather than maybe. He had to give me a lump sum of cash too.

None of which entitles you to live forever, in the style in which you've become accustomed, without working.

You're going to have to find a way to support yourself. Of course you can work more, study, that's the example you need to set for "those poor kids", work hard, be self sufficient. Teach them never to put themselves in a position where they're so dependent on anyone.

The offer you've had is generous and I'm not surprised he's frustrated with you.

Let it go to court and you won't get that.

You need to let go of that bitterness if it's what's making you clingy to unrealistic expectations to "punish" your ex. Legally none of it matters. The courts don't care how quickly he's moved on and it won't affect your settlement.

Solicitors putting deadlines on offers is not bullying, it's done to move the process along and because finances are a changing picture as time goes on. You are doing yourself no favours by not engaging and it's no wonder your ex is getting pissed off.

Also, no one can tell you the difference financially between the offers you have had as without seeing the numbers, % are meaningless. You need to decide whether the smallest mortgage now or more pension security is important to you and negotiate reasonably based on that. You also need to accept that you are going to have to maximise your earnings and work more.

also, every month your STBEXH is paying whatever he pays in rent and bills, let’s say £1k per month, that money is reducing the savings which are currently a marital asset.

You are the main carer of the kids and have one still in primary school. Of course it’s realistic to be working part time and not full time right now.

You need a solicitor who will fight for the best possible settlement so I would find a way borrow from family or get a loan because the reality is you may need to issue court proceedings to get that best settlement.

Do not be threatened by his solicitors - stand up and fight for the best outcome possible. He will
not want to be in court believe me.

Just to check that you are claiming child benefit now that he has moved out and so doesn’t fall under the higher earner charge?

You are the main carer of the kids and have one still in primary school. Of course it’s realistic to be working part time and not full time right now.

Based on what recent legal precedent?

Plenty of people work full time with a child in primary school.

In the kindest way OP you need to be working more hours.
What provision is there for wrap around care? Before and after school clubs, holiday clubs etc.
Is there a side hustle or remote working you can do?
It’s time to get creative because things will be very different moving forward.

What you might agree (which doesn’t help with the mortgage but which does help with cash flow) if things can be amicable is something like child maintenance plus an agreement that he will continue paying after school club on your days plus perhaps other bits that are specifically for the kids (eg he buys uniform and pays for school trips etc)

@NSwiftie85 not rude at all, but post divorce there is no obligation in the U.K. to give your spouse the same quality of life for the rest of your life even if it leaves you with no money.

It's the risk you take when you decide to stay at home and develop no career etc if your post divorce earning is then low.

You have supported his career but he's supported you not to work.

If your kids are nearing secondary school age, you should be thinking of full time work regardless.

Worth getting detailed advice from a solicitor so you don't ask for too much & then end up getting less via the court route

Yet someone millions of women with primary school age children manage to work full time...

*somehow

And plenty do not

Yes and millions don’t!

Great, thanks, what a killer legal argument.

Both OP and her STBEXH need to house themselves with space for their kids. It is not unreasonable to expect both to work full time to each maintain their household.

The millions that you mention will, for the most part, be living with an earning partner.

60/40 would be 192k for you if total assets are 200 equity plus 120pension.

He is offering 70% of the house plus 40% if the pension which is 188k, very close to each other in reality. You could ask for all the value of the house or 95% of the value in exchange for not touching the pension which works out a similar amount.

If share options are in the pot then is there a way of having a delayed payment for those? My dad had one of these that meant he had to give my mum a lump sum from when he sold his business a couple of years after the divorce. They could hold a lot of value which are a shared asset. He might leave the job to spite you but he would be cutting off his own nose.

The value of those shares could tip you over the edge in terms of the 200 you want for the house but you would have to wait or negotiate getting that amount early by accepting more of the house equity for instance.

Saying all of this, you will be expected to work..if you are getting divorced, you ex is no longer expected to look after you..this is the risk of being a sahm. Calculate the cost of any childcare you would need before and after school and factor that in to your living costs as part of negotiations.

I've never thought it is fair that the resident parent takes on the main cost of childcare costs that allow both parents to work.

He is a high earner, CMS payments may be significant you must be getting 1k a month or so? Don't assume it is forever though, he may have other children, change jobs, become a stay at home parent himself which will reduce or cancel payments entirely. You need to make yourself financially independent asap.

@DeepRoseFish yes and that's their prerogative when they have enough money or a partner who can support them... but the issue is that OP doesn't have enough money to support her current or future lifestyle

No obligation for her ex-husband to financially support that lifestyle choice

Yes she needs to maximise her income but no court is going to expect her to work any more than school hours with children still in school.

What makes you say this?

250 equity. 120 pension (assuming it was all accrued during the marraige) £370, say you get 60% would be 220 ish.
It's your choice what that looks like financially. You are presumably still young enough to get a new career. You may well find that much of your childcare will be covered by UC.