What is maintenance supposed to cover?

[FallenFigs]

context is 2DC, we’re in the process of untangling.

DH has agreed the basic level of maintenance, and we are discussing what that should cover. He had reduced his salary and is likely to take dividends etc. and be a bit (a lot) shifty about his actual earnings.

My solicitor has advices maintenance is for ‘keeping the lights on’ in the DC primary home. Should this also cover things like pocket money, school lunches, activities (sport etc) and clothing, school enrichment activities? Or should any/some of those things be over and above?

They will stay with him 2-3 nights/week. This is reflected in the maintenance calcs.

If the maintenance calcs are based on him having some caring responsibility, then surely he also has some additional financial responsibility? Not that, I then pay for everything for the kids out of the maintenance? This is how he is trying to play it.

We won’t be able to play this on a case by case basis ie when they need new clothes. He’ll be difficult about it each time so we need an agreement.

In theory it would be nice if he paid towards the things you mention.

But legally all he's required to pay is the amount calculated by CMS. There isn't a solid answer for what it does and doesn't cover.

It's simply the amount based on his earnings that he must pay, and is supposed to cover essentials.

Maintenance is his contribution for everything they need during their time with you.

A quick google and information from a solicitors website:
Child maintenance payments are designed to cover everyday living expenses for the child. For example, this includes food, housing, and clothing.

I don’t think it is stated that maintenance needs to cover school trips, activities ,pocket money etc as it would imply thatthe non-resident parent basically needs to contribute towards everything and could be misinterpreted as they need to cover all expenses.
both parents need to contribute therefore the law doesn’t specify details and demands that parents are reasonable and both contribute towards what is needed. Neither parent should avoid responsibility.

Well morally he should probably pay more
legally all he has to pay his cms and anything else is purely based on his goodwill

It’s based on his income - tricky if you think he’s planning to be dodgy about it - then what you spend it on is up to you.

He can give them pocket money when they’re with him. He might do, he might not. He can’t take it off his maintenance to you if he does and he can’t make you give it to them.

3 nights is nearly 50/50 equal care and he needs to provide bedrooms, clothes, food, activities etc for when he has them as you do when they’re with you, plus you get his contribution.

I was intending to propose we went 50/50 on all clubs, clothes, etc. work out a yearly budget and stick to that.

Otherwise it will all fall on me. I used to do all the life admin. It will be me buying clothes, even if they wear them with him. Ditto things like weekend activities. Surely easier to agree 50/50 cost split than say well this is the activity they do on the day they’re with you so you pay for that etc.

What happens to things like lunch money for school when they are with him some of the time and me some of the time?

any tips for negotiating this? He will resist on cost grounds, for me it is almost less the cost and more the hassle factor. If the budget is there we can set up contributions and payments accordingly. Whereas if we have to agree each case…..ugh

The problem with a cost split of 50/50 is that it might be seen as unfair as he already has similar costs to you when it comes to providing housing, food, covering bills etc - he needs to cover the expenses at his new place just like you need to cover it at yours. On top of that he pays you a monthly CM amount which is meant to help you. You are then asking for more money on top of that.

I can see how this might be seen as unfair from his perspective. You can try and he might agree to it but legally he doesn’t have to contribute anything over the csm.
can you cover the housing costs, bills etc from your salary and use the CM to help with any other costs without having to ask him for 50% every time?

There is no reason to think he will agree to any of your ideas. His solicitor will advise against it. He will surely just pay the percentage of his income required legal.

You want an agreed amount a month that covers a %age of everything (as decided during the divorce), deciding who pays how much for what every other day would be a nightmare particularly if he gets difficult about things. If there is a big item when the children get older, like driving lessons or a car that would be worth a discussion. Should it be linked to inflation? Reviewed periodically?

'He has agreed the basic level of maintenance', he has to pay this whether he agrees or not! His children deserve a decent standard of living and he should provide his share of that.

Should this also cover things like pocket money, school lunches, activities (sport etc) and clothing, school enrichment activities? Or should any/some of those things be over and above?

You cannot legally force him to pay for things you decide to do for your DC. Now you are separated each of you gets to decide what you do with the DC in your own time. So if for example if your child does horse riding in your time with you, he can refuse to take them and take them to do football instead. In turn you can refuse to take them to football.

My DP had this argument with his ex. His solicitor told him that school lunches, activities etc that his ex choose to do in her time should come out of her income and the maintenance she receives. So when she asked though her solicitor for help for these costs his solicitor had already drafted a response that said "no". (There were a few other reasons for this quick response.)

And in reality what happens is that DP's ex puts money on SC account for school lunches while he gives DC pack lunch. DP chooses sporting/outdoor activities SC will like doing in his time and his ex chooses more sedentary activities.

With our other friends and acquaintances both parents have same/similar interests so the children do their activities week in/week out regardless of the parent they are with at the time. Some share the costs of the activities but in most cases one parent pays for it all.

Oh and don't fight on things like clothes. Unfortunately many separated parents do. In the early days DP's ex would destroy some of the non-school uniform clothes that he gave his DC. So it got to the point only cheap supermarket/Primark clothes and clothes that were slightly small/wore out went with his DC back to their mother's. She would then get upset if she didn't receive back the underwear she sent DC in.

It will be annoying having to negotiate spending. For example he might insist you buy supermarket school shoes rather than Startrite or say no to extra curriculars.
He isn't legally required to take them to clubs etc when it's his time. That might be a bigger argument than who pays for the club.

Is the basic level of maintenance the amount a Child Maintenance Calculator suggests? That's the only money that he's required to pay. Even if he was paying school fees then that obligation would end unless your child was in the middle of a 2 year course like GCSEs

He will be told by his solicitor not to agree this.

So anything he gives will be voluntary.

This means if his circumstances change e.g. he can't work due to injury, he retires early, then he doesn't have to go back to Court to say he can't afford to give the OP money.

They are activities the DC have been doing for some time.

I can see that he doesn’t have to for activities when the DC are with me. But they are generally activities that will fall on both our time.

I wonder if the way to approach it is to ask for an amount that is discounted (ie he contributes 40% as opposed to 50%) and I do all the admin related to it. And for big one off things (school trips, driving lessons) we do 50/50.

that would make my life much easier in the hassle stakes. I wouldn’t be able to afford all of these things out of the maintenance tho. I have totted up and monthly these costs are about 3/5ths of the maintenance. Which means the remaining maintenance amounts wouldn’t cover the DC share of food or anything towards energy, housing, utilities.

As I said, he has reduced his salary (company director) so if he sticks to his guns (maintenance only) the DC will have a much reduced standard of living.

It sounds like he's already putting things in place exactly so he doesn't have to do this.

My friends ex did similar. Hid his self employed income. He definitely didn't pay for extra curriculars and he also used to drop them home without giving them a meal when they were supposed to be with him.

OP, I'm sorry to say it comes across as being very naive to assume you can just ask for every single future expense to be split 50/50, specially if he has only just about managed to agree basic maintenance and has already fudged his income? And plus he'll be having DC for nearly half the week himself and the costs associated with this.

And plus, whatever activities the DC do now might change quite frequently.- kids change their hobbies on a whim - or how do you know what school trips or activities will come up each year to be able to assess his half and demand that upfront?

It would be lovely if all expenses are court ordered to be split fairly but I just can't see it happening. You can ask and morally you'd be right to, but legally he's simply not obliged.

More importantly than what we think, what does your solicitor say?

The kind of system that you are suggesting is how 50/50 parents finance their kids. There's usually no maintenance payable in those cases but it obviously relies on both parents being reasonable and paying back the other. If the other parent refuses to pay then I don't think that anything can be done.

@Gingergirl70 I’m not asking for this to be part of a court order. An agreement/principal as a way of approaching things.

As I said earlier, if we don’t put a principal in place it will be a debate every single time. It’s exhausting.

Solicitor is saying that maintenance is to keep the lights on (ie basic food, clothing, heating etc) Things like this can be approached as over and above.

OP you are suggesting that your DC standard of living will decrease if your ex doesn’t contribute more. Have you considered preventing this or minimising the impact by increasing your own earning potential?
I can see from your previous posts that your children are secondary school age therefore I can assume there is no childcare issue. You have also previously been advised by many posters to increase your work hours to full time (apologies if you have already done so) but you argued that it’s not in their best interest to have a parent working full time and leave them to fend for themselves). I don’t want to be harsh but you appear to be putting all responsibility on your ex rather than looking for a solution where you can be financially independent.
From your previous posts he offered to pay your mortgage in full - has this happened ?

Problem with clubs etc is you may disagree.

we are very big on extra curricular and when step dc expressed an interest we’d support it, say we’d pay half or even pay all.

their mum didn’t agree, or if she did she’d take them one or twice before deciding she didn’t want to go any more.

as most clubs are pay up front for a term it was too much money to pay for them not to go every other weekend. Even if we offered to pick them up and take them that would be refused as it was her time.

frustrating for us, and the kids, but that was how she chose to parent. She felt there were other priorities. Her choice.

I understand that @FallenFigs I've read the whole thread. I'm just saying I think it's a bit naive to expect him to agree to anything other than what he's already agreed to through mediation, never mind get it court ordered. If he's only agreed basic maintenance, what makes you think he's suddenly going to see the error of his ways, stop hiding his income and start handing money over just because you're asking for it? As I said, it would be lovely if it worked like that but I personally think it's unrealistic. But that's just my opinion

Can I just ask, OP, what you plan to contribute yourself? As it stands, both of you have to house the kids on your respective times which is obviously a large expense. You both have to pay for extra electric, heating, water etc. Your ex will feed them in his time, provide activities etc all the while still paying money to you. You have a big advantage with this and if you then ask for extra money for school trips and other stuff what are you actually putting on the table yourself?

School lunches definitely count as food and have to be covered by maintenance. Same with pocket money and clothes.

When I received maintenance it covered everything, the only thing over and above that we shared 50/50 was any residential school trips. So yes, uniforms, school lunches etc came out of the maintenance.

Mine didn't do any clubs but SC do and whosever time it falls on, pays for the activity. And agree with @Usernamenotavailab clubs etc can be REALLY messy. SC mum won't let my DH go to watch on 'her time' so why should he pay anymore for it?

Solicitor is saying that maintenance is to keep the lights on (ie basic food, clothing, heating etc) Things like this can be approached as over and above.

In all due respect OP, your solicitor is saying that because the more work for them, the longer it takes to get an agreement KERCHING £££. It's not actually that usual that people agree to over and above.

that would make my life much easier in the hassle stakes. I wouldn’t be able to afford all of these things out of the maintenance tho. I have totted up and monthly these costs are about 3/5ths of the maintenance. Which means the remaining maintenance amounts wouldn’t cover the DC share of food or anything towards energy, housing, utilities.

You've got that all the wrong way around for starters OP! The maintenance should cover the food, energy, housing, utilities etc first.

Also maintenance isn't there to cover all your costs, or the DC costs. You need to make up your own contribution. Work more, change job...whatever you have to do. When I got divorced I went from working 2 days a week, to 5 days a week because I needed to pay the bills.

Yep I understand the maintenance is to cover those things first.
My point is, is DH is going to argue that these ‘extras’ come out of maintenance he’s going to have to accept they won’t be doing them as I won’t be able to afford it.

i have increased to 4 days/week and am studying on the 5 day. I really, really want to be around for the kids after school on some days as DD starts GCSEs etc.

I am contributing - sounds like those posts are old @QueenCoconut . I’m responsible for 50%
of mortgage (will remain shared asset and split when DC leave home) plus all
bills etc on ex-family home.

He's paying the other 50% of the mortgage on top of basic maintenance?
Do you have his agreement in writing with regards to the mortgage ? Does he live somewhere that costs him rent?