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Divorce/separation

Here you'll find divorce help and support from other Mners. For legal advice, you may find Advice Now guides useful.

Original poster

What is maintenance supposed to cover?

110 replies

FallenFigs · 05/06/2023 14:24

context is 2DC, we’re in the process of untangling.

DH has agreed the basic level of maintenance, and we are discussing what that should cover. He had reduced his salary and is likely to take dividends etc. and be a bit (a lot) shifty about his actual earnings.

My solicitor has advices maintenance is for ‘keeping the lights on’ in the DC primary home. Should this also cover things like pocket money, school lunches, activities (sport etc) and clothing, school enrichment activities? Or should any/some of those things be over and above?

They will stay with him 2-3 nights/week. This is reflected in the maintenance calcs.

If the maintenance calcs are based on him having some caring responsibility, then surely he also has some additional financial responsibility? Not that, I then pay for everything for the kids out of the maintenance? This is how he is trying to play it.

We won’t be able to play this on a case by case basis ie when they need new clothes. He’ll be difficult about it each time so we need an agreement.

OP posts:
gogohmm · 05/06/2023 17:21

Officially he pays for everything during his time, you during yours. Negotiating going halves on school uniforms, school dinners, other clothes, after school care, clubs etc is the best option if he will go for it - sell it as you will then provide clothing for his house and he won't need to arrange to pay for things on his days as it will already be paid for. If he's having them 3 days already, an alternative if go 50/50 and all costs down the middle no cms

greenspaces4peace · 05/06/2023 17:26

you receive x amount of money. how you divide it up, what you pay with it is 100% up to you.
if besides the minimum government suggestion maybe ask for a monthly or annual amount in each child's savings account for unplanned joint expenses?

CornishGem1975 · 05/06/2023 18:23

greenspaces4peace · 05/06/2023 17:26

you receive x amount of money. how you divide it up, what you pay with it is 100% up to you.
if besides the minimum government suggestion maybe ask for a monthly or annual amount in each child's savings account for unplanned joint expenses?

But why should he hand over money for other joint expenses? They're practically splitting the kids 50/50 as it is. And he's paying half the mortgage.

If I was in his shoes and OP keeps asking for more, I'd go for 50/50 share of the children and then there'd be no maintenance to pay at all!

greenspaces4peace · 05/06/2023 18:25

no no no no missed the half mortgage bit.

Original poster
FallenFigs · 05/06/2023 18:54

Hmm. Don’t really think my question warrants this snarky tone.

DP earns significantly more than I do. He will continue to be able to pay more into his pension etc. and will have 50% capital retuned for his payment of the mortgage in time.

OP posts:
polkadotdalmation · 05/06/2023 19:01

Why will it be a debate every time? He pays whatever the law says he has to pay and you have to manage that as best you can. It just doesn't work as you want it to

Original poster
FallenFigs · 05/06/2023 19:02

Perhaps if I set It out like this.

DH earns 3 times more per month than me. Taking into account mortgage, maintenance plus bills on his new house, he will still have more than 2/3 of that income left to do with as he pleases.

All of my salary plus CB plus maintenance will be needed to cover essential costs - food, bills etc.

i can cover all of this too at a push but that would leave me with zero contingency or ability to save even a tiny bit.

so, I am asking DP to contribute a small fraction of his remaining disposable income to enable me to have a bit of headroom.

OP posts:
Gingergirl70 · 05/06/2023 19:10

We understand what you're saying. It doesn't have to be slowly repeated as if we're imbeciles. I'm personally saying why is he going to agree with this if he's already hiding income and only agreeing to basic maintenance? How are you going to achieve your aim?
If you think you're entitled to more legally, then you're next step is to take it to court and let them decide.
You're obviously not happy with posters' opinions or advice and that's fine, but labouring the same point over and over is not going to have us all saying 'ah, she's going to change the law single-handedly' through MN posts and all future divorces are going to result in exactly what each person thinks they want or deserve.

tourdefrance · 05/06/2023 19:12

It sounds like you can ask but everyone is telling you that realistically the answer is probably going to be no.
Your ex probably won't care that dc are no longer able to do all extra curricular and I don't think they are worth it if it means you have no rainy day money.

3girls1boy1puppy · 05/06/2023 19:42

I’m afraid it makes no difference however you rephrase it. Morally yes he should want to help financially provide a better life for his children, but he is still only obliged legally to pay you what CM say he should. It’s up to him if he wants to put his children’s needs first or whether he wants to be a selfish dick.

3girls1boy1puppy · 05/06/2023 19:46

Should have added - the only thing you can do is make sure you have the best Solicitor you can afford. And that they are getting everything they possibly can for you in the divorce settlement. Eg Are you entitled to more than 50% of the house equity due to your lower earning potential? Are you entitled to some of his pension?

Original poster
FallenFigs · 05/06/2023 19:51

Thanks for the insight everyone.

Not for a minute am I trying to change the law. Not sure where that came from.

Looks like the outcome will be that the DC lose out.

OP posts:
Original poster
FallenFigs · 05/06/2023 19:52

Yes there is scope for departure from equality. That is more of a long term measure tho as I understand it, not going to help with monthly cash flow in the short term.

OP posts:
arethereanyleftatall · 05/06/2023 19:59

What I did op was I worked out how much the dc cost what with extra curriculars etc. it came to more than the CM. I said to ex you can either pay the CM and I will come to you for half every time I buy something for the dcs like ballet shoes etc (this would be a dailyish thing for our family) or you can give me £x extra and I'll sort it all. He snapped my hand off the latter.

FloweryName · 05/06/2023 20:03

My ex and I agreed that I would get less than the CMS recommended amount on a monthly basis but that he would pay for half of all reasonable expenses directly related to the dc. He paid half their nursery fees, school uniforms, clubs, music lessons, school trips, lunch account, everything. I’m sure over the years that worked out in my favour financially and it made it easier for both of us when I could just send a photo or screenshot of the payment/receipt.

Usernamenotavailab · 05/06/2023 20:12

Gingergirl70 · 05/06/2023 19:10

We understand what you're saying. It doesn't have to be slowly repeated as if we're imbeciles. I'm personally saying why is he going to agree with this if he's already hiding income and only agreeing to basic maintenance? How are you going to achieve your aim?
If you think you're entitled to more legally, then you're next step is to take it to court and let them decide.
You're obviously not happy with posters' opinions or advice and that's fine, but labouring the same point over and over is not going to have us all saying 'ah, she's going to change the law single-handedly' through MN posts and all future divorces are going to result in exactly what each person thinks they want or deserve.

He’s not hiding his income.

dividends are declared to HMRC and will be included in his yearly income.

it is often more tax efficient to pay minimum salary and take the rest in dividends, but it’s still income and can’t be “hidden”.

Gingergirl70 · 05/06/2023 20:15

@Usernamenotavailab OK, be pedantic about the way I worded it but you get this gist of what OP said in her OP:

He had reduced his salary and is likely to take dividends etc. and be a bit (a lot) shifty about his actual earnings.

Original poster
FallenFigs · 05/06/2023 20:16

@Usernamenotavailab he is. Basically he saying he’s earning £xx currently as is proved by payroll. Then, at year end when I will ask for tax returns he’ll have taken dividends. By which time he’ll have spent the dividends and it’ll be a battle to get prior years income from him.

OP posts:
Original poster
FallenFigs · 05/06/2023 20:18

@arethereanyleftatall this is exactly what I am aiming for.

he will say he will pay half, but if I have to pay up front and then try and get the funds from him, that is where the problem will be. It’ll be far easier to have a sun up front and I still put the effort in. I am hoping that the fact I will do all the admin and effort will be enough to swing it.

OP posts:
arethereanyleftatall · 05/06/2023 20:29

@FallenFigs
We did ours together with a mediator. Filled in a spreadsheet with all out goings and incomings. I had all the kids extra stuff in my column. My column came out in negative, his in positive. Mediator said he needed to pay the difference to me, and they called it spousal maintenance. It isn't really though cos it goes to the dc.

Usernamenotavailab · 05/06/2023 20:35

FallenFigs · 05/06/2023 20:16

@Usernamenotavailab he is. Basically he saying he’s earning £xx currently as is proved by payroll. Then, at year end when I will ask for tax returns he’ll have taken dividends. By which time he’ll have spent the dividends and it’ll be a battle to get prior years income from him.

But that will then be his income for the following year so your cms will go up. If he’s paying they may be able to take the arrears.

regardless, dividends will make up his income. There may be latency which is a pita, much like tax credits, but he can’t hide them. It will be on his company tax returns which you can get from companies house.

caringcarer · 05/06/2023 20:55

WheelsUp · 05/06/2023 14:38

Maintenance is his contribution for everything they need during their time with you.

This, when they are with him he has to pay for things for them. If they have school meals and 2 days they stay with Dad on those days he loads up their meal card for lunch. He needs to buy them clothes for days at his house and do their laundry and not to send home dirty washing for you to deal with. E.g. if DD is at school on Tuesday and stbexh collects from school on Tuesday evening she will be wearing her school shoes and school uniform. He needs to buy her trainers and clothes to wear at his house in the evening. Do not send extra clothes with her make him buy her some clothes to wear at his house. Then back into uniform for school. He washes the clothes worn at his home. If your DC do any activities on the night they are at his house, he pays for those. My nephew has 2 DD with his ex and they pay half each for uniform, school lunches, winter coats, clothing and shoes and trainers. He pays for each DD to do one activity each week and they both do dancing. He says child maintenance pays for his girls to live when they are with their Mum. He often takes them out to nice places and treats them to a new outfit each, and pays for school trips. Unfortunately so many men won't do this for their children and hide money so their children go without things it's shameful. I'd be so bloody ashamed if any of my son's did this to their children.

CornishGem1975 · 05/06/2023 20:55

Looks like the outcome will be that the DC lose out.

Unfortunately that's the reality of divorce for most people.

CornishGem1975 · 05/06/2023 20:57

FallenFigs · 05/06/2023 19:02

Perhaps if I set It out like this.

DH earns 3 times more per month than me. Taking into account mortgage, maintenance plus bills on his new house, he will still have more than 2/3 of that income left to do with as he pleases.

All of my salary plus CB plus maintenance will be needed to cover essential costs - food, bills etc.

i can cover all of this too at a push but that would leave me with zero contingency or ability to save even a tiny bit.

so, I am asking DP to contribute a small fraction of his remaining disposable income to enable me to have a bit of headroom.

Understood but that still doesn't mean he has to. The fact he earns £££ will be taken into account in the CMS payment. Just because you think you should get something, doesn't mean you should...

ArcticSkewer · 05/06/2023 21:01

Consider doing 50:50 alternate weeks and you each pay for everything on that week. All clothes etc stay at the parent's house. That way he will pay for his half, or is more likely to