What is maintenance supposed to cover?

[FallenFigs]

context is 2DC, we’re in the process of untangling.

DH has agreed the basic level of maintenance, and we are discussing what that should cover. He had reduced his salary and is likely to take dividends etc. and be a bit (a lot) shifty about his actual earnings.

My solicitor has advices maintenance is for ‘keeping the lights on’ in the DC primary home. Should this also cover things like pocket money, school lunches, activities (sport etc) and clothing, school enrichment activities? Or should any/some of those things be over and above?

They will stay with him 2-3 nights/week. This is reflected in the maintenance calcs.

If the maintenance calcs are based on him having some caring responsibility, then surely he also has some additional financial responsibility? Not that, I then pay for everything for the kids out of the maintenance? This is how he is trying to play it.

We won’t be able to play this on a case by case basis ie when they need new clothes. He’ll be difficult about it each time so we need an agreement.

With our other friends and acquaintances both parents have same/similar interests so the children do their activities week in/week out regardless of the parent they are with at the time. Some share the costs of the activities but in most cases one parent pays for it all.

Your friends have the right idea, but their own interest in the activity should have nothing to do with it. It's about the children, surely.

You can apply for spousal maintenance, you would need to prove to the court by his financial declarations form E that you need the assistance based on your outgoings. It can be tricky if he doesn’t declare the true earnings. My understanding is that it’s based on previous 12 months earnings. Full disclosure is required in financial settlements, look into financial consent orders to protect yourself. Good luck

If you’re on a very low income you should be entitled to some universal credit? The fact that he earns x3 the amount would be reflected in the maintenance unless income being is being hidden. Separated families are inevitably going to not be able to maintain the same standard of living as previously. Possibly the spousal maintenance route if you’ve had to sacrifice your career due to his work etc? I’m a parent with care but do think it’s unfair to start asking for money for extras if he’s paying the full CMS amount, only if it’s something he specifically wants for DC then he should pay for it. Is there no way you can e.g. downsize to give yourself more disposable income?

P.s. I think it’s fair enough to except him to cover any expenses for the days the children are with him e.g. lunches and clothing but wouldn’t be fair for you to dictate the specifics e.g packed lunches or school dinners or insist on clubs those days

Separated families are inevitably going to not be able to maintain the same standard of living as previously

This. But not many people seem to accept it

You’re separated.

his income is no longer family income.

it doesn’t matter what your costs are /income is, he is not obliged to make up the shortfall. If you want to save or have money for contingencies that’s up to you- either work toward earning more, budget accordingly, downsize, whatever. But you need to work within your means.

if he earns three times more it’s his money. As long as he pays his way re. The children, the rest of his money is his.

you want more money, it’s down to you to sort it, not expect support off a man you now have no financial relationship with.

Realistically OP what's deemed fair (which is objective) and what the law states and what will be actually enforceable are different things. Its a percentage of his wage, and it can vary depending if that changes and/or if he has more children etc. Maintenance isn't taken into account when calculating benefit entitlement (or at least it didn't used to be, worth checking), you're better off seeing what you can claim. It's no longer family money.

Unless the payer earns significant amounts, then spousal maintenance is extremely unlikely if the matter goes to court (and it doesn't sound like the payer is going to agree to pay it willingly). I suspect if it was likely, the OP's solicitor would already have mentioned it.

The OP's income will already be made up of four main streams after divorce. Her earnings, universal credit (dependent on what her earnings are), child benefit (again, dependent on what her earnings are) and child maintenance. In the vast majority of divorces, these income streams are enough for SM to not apply. (For universal credit to not apply at all, the OP would need to be earning £22.5k a year with one DC and to not get child benefit they would need to be earning around £60k).

If for example you take someone with one child earning £15k a year with an ex on £45k who has the child 2/3 nights. That means per month £1,180 salary; £344 UC; £104 CB and £314 CM. An income just below £1,950. The payer will be on £2,885 net and once CM is paid they will be on £2,570. The payer will not be considered to have a big enough income to keep another adult on that even if that other adult is earning less.

You’re separated.

his income is no longer family income.

it doesn’t matter what your costs are /income is, he is not obliged to make up the shortfall. If you want to save or have money for contingencies that’s up to you- either work toward earning more, budget accordingly, downsize, whatever. But you need to work within your means.

if he earns three times more it’s his money. As long as he pays his way re. The children, the rest of his money is his.

you want more money, it’s down to you to sort it, not expect support off a man you now have no financial relationship with.

@Usernamenotavailab exactly. You put this better than I could

@Coffeepot72 @Usernamenotavailab Although morally I agree with you both 100%, unfortunately the law does not work like this. Marriage is seen as a special kind of contract, one which is very hard to exit. Indeed, one side can even utterly trash their side of this contract and still insist the other side upholds theirs and can get support from both legislation and the courts in doing so.

Spousal maintenance comes into play when one side has a need and the other has an ability to pay. This tends to be rare and getting rarer due to various factors. It is no longer seen as acceptable for a court to freeze one parent out of a child's life for example and therefore where once it was seen as acceptable to banish dad to bedsit land, now it is expected that both parents can live in suitable accommodation and share in the care of children. Also, the cost of housing has rocketed, making it less likely that someone can afford both a roof over their own head and to fund an ex. Also, it's now much more normal for both parents to work so where once it was acceptable for a SAHP to carry on not working, now they're normally given a year or two at most to sort themselves out.

Then on top of all that, the way universal credit works, a recipient essentially faces either having a low paid job and UC, but losing their UC if they get SM so they are no better off. Or they get a better paid job and are not considered to "need" spousal maintenance. Only where their ex earns extremely well so that the SM more than makes up for the UC lost or there needs to be some payment to maintain needs generously interpreted will it come into play and you're probably looking at £150k minimum for that these days. People do get it on less but normally it involves a guilty payer who agrees to it or a child under 4 (and payment on a short term basis). Almost always the payments if paid below that amount are small and often capitalised away.

I am 50/50 with my exH. It is a nightmare. My DC are now 16 and 14. I end up having to do the grunt work for them both and buy the things, sort the trips, the school stuff, the after school activities, the sports. Then there is the taxiing after that. We live rurally so it's miles all the time. They don't socialise when they are with him because he gives off and won't bring them anywhere. I have to send him pics of receipts and if he pays he pays, he doesn t he doesn't. Sometimes if he doesn't like the amount, he will send what he feels like sending. Other times I have to beg for the money to the point I give up. I have an ask three times rule lol and if you dont get it on the third attempt, you aint getting it at all lol. Its crap. You are going to have to work out OP where you feel you might need the financial input and average the costs for all of those things, making sure the maintenance agreement takes that into consideration. Given we have a 50/50 split, I get no maintenance from him. He claimed the child benefit for the oldest child too, so you need to think about that aswell. I honestly don't know what the best answer is for you, if he has form for being deceitful. I wish you all the best, and hope you get sorted out trying to find your feet in your new future. Good luck x

Thanks for all the replies - some interesting differences of opinion.

To clarify, currently his stance is that as he is paying maintenance, I am responsible for 100% of the costs with the exception of food whilst the DC are at his house (plus his housing costs obvs). This is the part I have an issue with, on the basis that the CM is adjusted down as they are staying with him some of the time. Therefore, he should be responsible for some of these costs. 3/7ths, if I have understood how the CM is pro-rata’d.

To be clear, I do not view his income as family income. But I do view that he should contribute to some of these costs.

some of the responses seem a little unrealistic - well just get another job that pays more money. If only life were so straightforward!

I think the problem is one party can’t generally unilaterally sign children up for clubs and buy things and simply expect the other party to pay towards them

in an ideal world both parents would agree what activities kids go and who pays what but often that doesn’t happen therefore of mum ( usually) agrees thst dc can go gym and horse riding but the other parent gets no say or chive and doesn’t want to contribute them no one can make them. Therefore resident parent ( usually mum) has to decide if she can afford it. If not then they can do it

dud I read he’s also paying half the mortgage still too ?

forgot to add that things like feeding them, school lunch money etc I would expect him to pay on the days he’s with them.

Unfortunately OP your children will have a poorer financial background because you are separated and the money will not stretch as far.

As a company director he will easily be able to hide his income anyway.

What he’s offering now seems very generous. I would take it before you use everything up in solicitors fees.

When I got divorced a wise friend told me that a good financial settlement is where both parties feel hard done by. That has really stuck with me.

Upsizer · Today 07:36
Unfortunately OP your children will have a poorer financial background because you are separated and the money will not stretch as far.

This. A surprising amount of people fail to realise it though.

To clarify, currently his stance is that as he is paying maintenance, I am responsible for 100% of the costs with the exception of food whilst the DC are at his house (plus his housing costs obvs).

He is correct. If he is paying maintenance, and if you want to improve your finances the ball’s in your court. That isn’t meant to sound harsh, but it’s just the way it is.

I don't think he is correct though? The ex seems to be saying that since he pays maintenance then op needs to pay for clothes and stuff while the kids are at his house? But why is the maintenance reduced then for his 3 nights if he's not expected to provide for them?

I think lots of men are like this. My friends exes certainly are. I don't understand why men refusing to support their children is t socially unacceptable? I'd be horrified if my DS ever behaved like that.

He is not correct.

He pays for his days. Childcare if required on those days. Provides clothes for those days. Washes clothes for those days. School lunch for those days. Bus fare for those days. Any activities they do for those days.

Ideally of course activities would be split, otherwise a tightarse parent will just not allow any activities on their days, but they certainly can't do them eg take them swimming . . and expect the other parent to pay. Or expect the other parent to provide the clothes and bus fare

Life IS that straightforward though. You’ve chosen to work part time and study on your day off. That’s YOUR choice - why should he subsidise that? You’re getting basic CS plus having half the mortgage paid for. Presumably you also get the child benefit as it sounds like his earnings are too high for himself to receive it.
A financial order indicates that your finances are totally separated from now on. What you seem to be wanting is for him to be a blank cheque book to fork out whenever you deem it to be necessary.
IT doesn’t have to be such a drama. For example, if a school trip comes up, ask him how much he is willing to contribute. If it’s nil, then you decide if you can afford it. If you can’t, then DC gets told - sorry, we can’t afford this trip.

You need a full time job though! If only to make sure you have enough income in the not too distant future when you have to sell the house and split the equity.

Having half the mortgage paid until the youngest has left home is huge OP, and not something a lot of people benefit from. Yes, he’ll get money back eventually, but you’re massively benefiting from it now and it’s presumably allowing you to house your children and study and work part time.

Are you living separately and doing the 5/9 custody split now? If so just don’t send them with pyjamas or toothbrushes or spare clothes or money for lunch on his days. They’re teenagers and will have to ask their dad. Same with clubs or school trips: “sorry DC, I can only afford to pay half now. Either Dad pays half or you go less often / somewhere cheaper.”

You don’t want to let the children down; he won’t want to deal with sulky teenagers who begrudge him nagging for money either.

Maintenance is for the additional time they’re with you. So he has them and pays for them 5 nights a fortnight, it’s assumed you’re paying for 5 nights’ costs, and the remaining 4 are paid for by your contribution and his maintenance. When you look at it that way, it’s only to cover those extra two days’ costs.

Seriously, at some point if you push this he will ask that the 50% mortgage payment offer is removed. And you won’t get it back in a court. If he asked me what to do this is what I would suggest.

You are the resident parent and this is reflected in the asset share and the CMS. Getting 50% of your housing costs subsidised is enough of a win to not quibble over the additional costs of being the resident parent. Because you won’t get both.

You don’t have a 50/50 agreement so he is not obligated to pick half the costs.

Most non resident parents will contribute to additional expenses but this is best done on their own terms.

You need to make your peace with the fact that all you will get is an asset share and CMS. The contribution to your housing costs is a bonus.

You can ask him contribute towards activities but he is under no obligation at all to do so.

He is responsible for any costs while they’re at his house, e.g clothes etc, obviously you’ll be sending them in clothes but you shouldn’t have to send a bag of clothes for them to wear whilst there. At the same time you have to respect what he chooses to purchase so not helpful to for example complain doesn’t buy branded gear etc or take them on days out, book clubs etc. Have to view it like would have any other parent, I’ve probably got different priorities to how spend my family finances and time to you. He should have the same respect towards you also

P.s would never have thought of asking ex for money for things like school trips as thought of them as my responsibility if receiving the maintenance and child benefit. We just decide whether they are a priority in our budget depending on the trip and child etc as we do for our other DC