Child maintenance - trying to be fair!

[Jw1102]

Please can anyone offer advice? My ex is saying he can't afford to pay the amount of CM that the calculator suggests. I don't know how much is due to the fact he is renting a nice flat so they children have a nice second home or because he's bad at budgeting. Either way, I feel I have no choice but to let him reduce his payments because I don't want my girls to have to suffer by losing their second home which they really love. Im just not sure how to go about suggesting a fair amount? Ultimately, he'll probably say he can only afford x and I'll have to accept it but just wondering if anyone has been in a similar situation? I'm not earning loads but have been managing the last year just about despite getting next to nothing in terms of CM. Maybe I should just let him pay what he can afford if I think I can manage and take the more peaceful option? He doesn't seem to understand that he has an obligation to pay, and the fact that I work part time at the moment (one child still not school age) probably annoys him. I would look for more hours if I need to, of course, but don't want to lose that time with my child just because he can't sort himself out and budget properly, if that is the case here.

He is taking the piss.

The calculator is a percentage of his income. About 16% if it’s two children.

How much of your income is being used to support your children? I bet it’s more than 16%. That’s true whether you’re working part time or full time.

He is manipulating you. And letting his daughters down.

I spent months listening to my ex complaining about how he’s got no money because his life is so expensive and CM is so much. How he’s got no money and he’s always overdrawn at the end of the month.

He earns a six figure salary. Yes.

I stopped listening to him at all at the point when he went on a 5* all inclusive holiday in august with his older children. And then went on a boys weekend on mainland Europe with his friends. Plus several trips away to UK cities. And bought a new car. And so on… All while I looked after our child.

I sat and thought about how I was struggling but managing to make ends meet on a salary about 1/3 of his. How I was claiming UC to afford childcare so I could continue to work FT. How the CM he was complaining about was less than half the monthly childcare bill - never mind contributing anything to housing or feeding or clothing our child. How I would see a day trip out (on public transport, because I couldn’t afford a car) as a big treat and expense and could in no way imagine being able to afford to go on holiday.

It is not my fault that he’s shit with money. Or that he’s got big maintenance responsibilities because he fucked up two relationships and has 3 kids to pay for. Or that his lifestyle doesn’t meet his expectations. He doesn’t deserve my sympathy. At all.

You know that your ex can perfectly well afford to pay CM. He just doesn’t want to. And he expects you to feel sorry for him about it.

Does he feel any sympathy for you when you have to budget carefully and all your income goes to keeping your household afloat? When you make sacrifices because there isn’t money to do anything else? thought not.

Make a CMS claim and stop imagining you’re responsible for his finances.

It is difficult. My ex isn’t paying the maintenance he should but he is fun Dad buys the dc bikes, chip shop fish and chips for tea. Has the heating on when they are there type stuff but is skint. He is a higher earner too but expensive commute. I’m letting it go for the moment.

Pays half mortgage/ building/ life insurance which works out to about half what he should pay in maintenance. I work full time but half wfh so flexible for dc. I could earn much more if I had the same freedom he has to focus on his career. I do get child benefit, Uc and pretty soon Scottish child payment so financially probably the same as having a better job but without long term benefits of career progression.

If he's salaried go through the CMS.

child-maintenance.service.gov.uk/get-help-arranging-child-maintenance/?utm_source=Referral&utm_medium=GOV_UK&utm_campaign=how-to-apply

If he's self-employed/freelance then you are likely going to have to accept what he's giving you or get nothing.

Your priority should be your children not your ex. CM goes no where near half the cost of raising a child.

*The calculator is a percentage of his income. About 16% if it’s two children.

How much of your income is being used to support your children? I bet it’s more than 16%. That’s true whether you’re working part time or full time*

The vast, vast majority of my income goes on rent and bills, so I never understand this personally. It probably isn't more than 16% specifically on the kids.

The reality is that two parents paying for two sets of rent/mortgage and bills because they aren't living together as a unit will always be stretched very thin, I think people on here tend to ignore that and lack sympathy because many people have personal experience of ex husbands taking the piss when it comes to CMS, but not everyone who struggles to pay it is taking the piss.

You will know better than us if he's likely to be genuinely struggling. Has he said how much he thinks he could afford?

He’s not necessarily taking the piss ( could be we don’t know)

do you know roughly what he earns?
Rent plus bills plus utilities m, petrol, food etc all add up and if he’s not on a high income could find cms a struggle

is he renting someone extravagant or ‘normal’?

i imagine you are being topped up with UC and child benefit too which he won’t be

it’s difficult to know without understanding his income vs what he’s suggesting

How much parenting does he do? If it’s less than 50:50, he owes his kids that he chose to have. CMS is bare minimum, as PP have said, they can take it from him. Unless he’s self employed.

Thank you for the responses, obviously a mix based on individuals experience. His flat isn't extravagant but it's a nice 1 bed in a nice area. He takes home about 2k and his rent is over 1k, which is crazy. But we agreed he would rent so I could keep living in the house with the girls who are with me 5/7 nights. So you can see that he doesn't have much left after bills and I don't want him to be living on nothing. He could say rent is too expensive and force us to sell the house which would mean we'd both end up in small flats, which wouldn't be beneficial to the children. So maybe I should see his high rent as part of his CM contribution. He hasn't said how much he can afford yet, we need to have that conversation next week.

I'm sorry you've had that awful experience @Rocksludge. You'll see from my previous post that my ex is not at all in the same boat as yours was, earns far less and could realistically be struggling to pay CM due to high rent. We're on the south coast and rents are extortionate! So I suppose just looking for suggestions on a solution we can both live with.

They are my priority - that's why I'm trying to find a fair solution that will keep them in two nice homes that they love being in.

I don't normally agree with absent parents who don't pay the legal minimum BUT in your case, it does sound as though you have tacitly agreed to use some of the CM to house your ex in return for you staying in the family home so I agree with what you've done - it makes sense.

Spending 50% of income on housing is insane and unsustainable. Is his flat expensive for the area (say a new build in a desirable location ) or is it typical for the area? Are surrounding areas similarly expensive ? Where do the people on 2k per month live? Not sure about this point but will UC help with housing costs ?
It sounds like you agreed that he should live in his current flat so some of his CM is being spent on this flat that you okayed . I don't understand the point about children losing their second home since he's renting so could be asked to leave every 6 months. If your kids are young then dad moving to a new place can be made to seem like an adventure in many cases.

So you’re staying in the family home, ( rented or owned?) working part time
he has agreed to rent which allows you to do so
he wants to have his children over but only currently has a 1 bed when really he needs more

seems totally unfair to your ex tbh

when do you plan to return to work full time
resolve the current housing situation ?

Maybe it's time to accept that most people are poorer after divorce and paying over the odds for something nice isn't going to disguise the fact that you and your ex have split.
In your case I think that you should consider that your current solution only works as long as your ex doesn't decide that he'd like to buy too. If he finds a partner that he'd like to make long term plans with then buying a house is a likely (and reasonable) commitment that he might want to make.

He needs more than 1 bed. Even if he has to move to a worse area. How is he going to look after the kids. If he has them more there's less maintenance to pay as he has to pay to feed them etc when with him.

Stick to the CMS figure and go through them if he refuses

How part-time are you ?

Are you married, or divorced, or neither?

If he earns £2k and is spending over half of that on rent then he probably can't afford to pay much. You could go through the CMS but is that likely to force his hand into wanting to sell the family home and take his share of the equity?

I don’t claim CM as I earn enough to get by without it, ex is low income and rents so his contribution would be small anyway. I prefer him to be able to heat and feed the dc when they are there. Obviously I’d prefer not to have sole responsibility and for him to earn a decent wage and pay his share but that was same when we were together and the reason he’s my ex. I can’t change him. He has been good about me staying in house and not pushed to sell (which has been right decision for dc). I get some benefits for dc and keep 100% that. It means we don’t argue about money and he isn’t having the dc overnight just to keep CM down - he would insist on this rather than pay and the dc would hate that as he doesn’t have a nice flat and they have always preferred one base and to just visit their dad (are teens so frankly don’t want to hang out much with either parent!). I don’t think it’s unreasonable to ask to see his financials and assess if you have a similar disposable income. But if he’s paying that in rent then after bills and food he really won’t have much left. You should also agree to review it regularly in case his income goes up. I’d also negotiate a schedule that allows you to work equally in future eg make sure he does before and after school care / holidays so you can do a full days work (or even a longer day when he has dc). Being able to earn a good wage and pension in future may be more valuable to you in long term. Everyone’s situation is different. Keeping the house while dc did exams and had separate rooms etc was more important to me than the CM. Don’t underestimate the cost of maintaining a house - all that falls on me. And maybe negotiate an agreement he will be expected to contribute one off expenses like school trips / laptops etc when they are older.

Good point re. adventures. he's got a long term lease so doubt he'll be made to move anytime soon but yes you're right he could have to move for numerous reasons. I just don't want to be the reason. He agrees to find a flat and chose a flat in an expensive area. It's a large 1 bed. So it means they can have the downstairs bit when they are older and want to, though it's not exactly a separate room.

Think I've not been clear - we agreed the girls should get to stay in our co-owned house and me with them as they are with me more than 5/7 days. He chose his flat in an expensive area (nearer to work than the girls). If we sold the house we would only each end up with enough to buy a 1 bed flat which we agreed wouldn't benefit anyone. My working hours don't affect anything - I can afford all the bills, mortgage etc but will up my hours if ever needed. He only pays whatever CM we agree on, not the mortgage. Im not sure what's unfair to him? Appreciate your input to help me make sense of the situation.

So maybe I should see his high rent as part of his CM contribution. That's ridiculous.

If anything you could see that the house you're living in is part of his CM but definitely not where he lives. Have you bought him out? Or is his equity still in your house.

We're going for the legal settlement that means we'll keep the house until the girls are 18, or something like that. Nothings finalised yet but that's what we both thought was best for them.

3 days a week

Separated - we can't afford a divorce yet.