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Divorce/separation

Here you'll find divorce help and support from other Mners. For legal advice, you may find Advice Now guides useful.

Original poster

Child maintenance - trying to be fair!

93 replies

Jw1102 · 30/11/2022 10:12

Please can anyone offer advice? My ex is saying he can't afford to pay the amount of CM that the calculator suggests. I don't know how much is due to the fact he is renting a nice flat so they children have a nice second home or because he's bad at budgeting. Either way, I feel I have no choice but to let him reduce his payments because I don't want my girls to have to suffer by losing their second home which they really love. Im just not sure how to go about suggesting a fair amount? Ultimately, he'll probably say he can only afford x and I'll have to accept it but just wondering if anyone has been in a similar situation? I'm not earning loads but have been managing the last year just about despite getting next to nothing in terms of CM. Maybe I should just let him pay what he can afford if I think I can manage and take the more peaceful option? He doesn't seem to understand that he has an obligation to pay, and the fact that I work part time at the moment (one child still not school age) probably annoys him. I would look for more hours if I need to, of course, but don't want to lose that time with my child just because he can't sort himself out and budget properly, if that is the case here.

OP posts:
gogohmm · 30/11/2022 14:37

A mesher order until the youngest turns 18 is highly unlikely to be agreed by the court with children so young and your incomes. A more likely outcome would be they would guarantee it until your youngest is in year 1, by which time you can reasonably have increased your hours. Remember you can still privately agree to wait longer to see but the court is unlikely to mandate it - and to be honest you may both want to sell long before then if you meet new partners.

The existing arrangement is great for the interim but not 15 years.

Original poster
Jw1102 · 30/11/2022 14:45

gogohmm · 30/11/2022 14:37

A mesher order until the youngest turns 18 is highly unlikely to be agreed by the court with children so young and your incomes. A more likely outcome would be they would guarantee it until your youngest is in year 1, by which time you can reasonably have increased your hours. Remember you can still privately agree to wait longer to see but the court is unlikely to mandate it - and to be honest you may both want to sell long before then if you meet new partners.

The existing arrangement is great for the interim but not 15 years.

Thank you, this is all helpful input to a complex situation. I could go FT tomorrow but it wouldn't make us any more able to afford two homes out of the one, sadly.

OP posts:
Putdownthecake · 30/11/2022 14:57

If you have sole use of the marital property, he could charge you rent. If he owes 250 child maintenance and you owe him 250 for rent then they'd cancel each other out (made up figures obvs). You or him may meet someone else and want to buy together but be stuck on a mortgage with each other. Might be best to pull the bandaid off sooner rather than later

PinkFrogss · 30/11/2022 16:34

Could you afford to buy him out when your youngest is in school and you go part time? You’d be able to borrow more, and he’d be able to afford to pay maintenance.

Original poster
Jw1102 · 30/11/2022 17:07

PinkFrogss · 30/11/2022 16:34

Could you afford to buy him out when your youngest is in school and you go part time? You’d be able to borrow more, and he’d be able to afford to pay maintenance.

No, sadly not.

OP posts:
ArcticSkewer · 30/11/2022 17:22

This is highly unlikely to work long term, or probably even medium term. I think you are right, in that if you push now for more than n cms it will be unaffordable and drive him to actually seek legal advice and realise the current plan is unsustainable long term. But you probably both need to start to see that anyway, so that may be no bad thing.

Original poster
Jw1102 · 30/11/2022 18:26

Really appreciate all the answers, given me lots to think about. Still not sure there's a better answer than the mesher order because neither of us want the girls to be living in a one bed flat 7 days a week til they move out, plus lose their garden and a lot of toys etc. maybe I'm missing something, I don't know. Will give it lots more thought x

OP posts:
ArcticSkewer · 30/11/2022 19:30

What you are missing is that your kids are really really young and your ex is a low earner. When he meets a new partner is when this will change. Or when you do - and want him to move in.

But in the meantime things are working for you all so that's great. Sometimes it's just about 'what's right for now'

LunaAndHerMoonDragons · 30/11/2022 19:48

The court might not be willing to grant a mesher order even if your ex agrees to it. Leaving aside if its in your ex's best interest, it might not be in your best interests as well. You may find yourself trapped by it, it's binding on both of you not just him. Since legally you can be considered to be renting his share of the house he'll still be entitled to the same percentage of any increase in equity as he gets granted in the current house. Rising house prices will naturally benefit him, but so will any increase in equity from you paying the mortgage.

You'll need to pay the mortgage and maintain the house on your own. This may be a lot more expensive than you expect. 15 years is a lot of wear and tear on a house. If things like kitchens and bathrooms haven't been updated for a while then adding 15 years of wear and tear they can look badly worn and effect house sale. Our bathroom and kitchen are about 20 years old now and you can definitely see the physical wear and tear. Other things will wear out too, the house will need repainting, you may need to do roof repairs at some stage. We've had to do roof repairs just from wear and tear, not storm damage which insurance pays for, replace some tiles, fix up the pointing, repaint, it was expensive. You might need to replace the boiler or the heating system. Do the figures before you tie yourself into this (assuming a judge agrees), a mesher order might not be in your DDs best interests.

Twillow · 30/11/2022 19:53

My ex claimed the poverty card (earning 3K a month which is disclosed to me by CMS), I offered to negotiate if he provided evidence of his mortgage outgoings. He declined.

Original poster
Jw1102 · 30/11/2022 19:55

LunaAndHerMoonDragons · 30/11/2022 19:48

The court might not be willing to grant a mesher order even if your ex agrees to it. Leaving aside if its in your ex's best interest, it might not be in your best interests as well. You may find yourself trapped by it, it's binding on both of you not just him. Since legally you can be considered to be renting his share of the house he'll still be entitled to the same percentage of any increase in equity as he gets granted in the current house. Rising house prices will naturally benefit him, but so will any increase in equity from you paying the mortgage.

You'll need to pay the mortgage and maintain the house on your own. This may be a lot more expensive than you expect. 15 years is a lot of wear and tear on a house. If things like kitchens and bathrooms haven't been updated for a while then adding 15 years of wear and tear they can look badly worn and effect house sale. Our bathroom and kitchen are about 20 years old now and you can definitely see the physical wear and tear. Other things will wear out too, the house will need repainting, you may need to do roof repairs at some stage. We've had to do roof repairs just from wear and tear, not storm damage which insurance pays for, replace some tiles, fix up the pointing, repaint, it was expensive. You might need to replace the boiler or the heating system. Do the figures before you tie yourself into this (assuming a judge agrees), a mesher order might not be in your DDs best interests.

Thank you for taking the time to write this, really helpful points.

OP posts:
isthistheendtakeabreath · 30/11/2022 20:30

@millymollymoomoo is very knowledgeable and has given me lots of reasonable sound advice before so I would take on Board what she's saying

I do agree it also sounds unfair

I have 3 small children - 2 of which are twins a year old. I'm sorry but working part time is a luxury when you are separated and on one income. I bet you could afford to buy him out....if you worked full time and that's what a court looking at this would probably say.

I'm remortgaging to buy my STBEXH out. He earns less than your husband. We have agreed he will get a lump sum now which is the maximum the bank will give me given the childcare liabilities I am carrying and then he will get a second lump sum when the twins start school. No waiting until the kids are 18.

I couldn't afford to buy a decent sized home for us in this area either but whatever I feel about STBEXH he also needs to be able to house himself and pay his rent

Original poster
Jw1102 · 30/11/2022 20:47

isthistheendtakeabreath · 30/11/2022 20:30

@millymollymoomoo is very knowledgeable and has given me lots of reasonable sound advice before so I would take on Board what she's saying

I do agree it also sounds unfair

I have 3 small children - 2 of which are twins a year old. I'm sorry but working part time is a luxury when you are separated and on one income. I bet you could afford to buy him out....if you worked full time and that's what a court looking at this would probably say.

I'm remortgaging to buy my STBEXH out. He earns less than your husband. We have agreed he will get a lump sum now which is the maximum the bank will give me given the childcare liabilities I am carrying and then he will get a second lump sum when the twins start school. No waiting until the kids are 18.

I couldn't afford to buy a decent sized home for us in this area either but whatever I feel about STBEXH he also needs to be able to house himself and pay his rent

What makes you think I could afford that? Can it be done in drips over time? I have no savings so don't know how I'd find 40K to buy him out, working FT or not! Wish I could!

OP posts:
Stomacharmeleon · 30/11/2022 21:21

Equity?
You are being advised that mesher orders are unlikely as it gives neither of you realistically a chance to start again.
And what is ok for you both now is unlikely to stay the same until your children are 18.

sevenbyseven · 30/11/2022 21:49

To be fair I don't think the OP is planning to get divorced any time soon so what the courts will or will not agree doesn't matter for now.

Quitelikeit · 30/11/2022 22:07

I’ve not read the whole thread but I have read op responses

OP

so he let you remain in the family home - excellent

he is renting a flat that costs 1k a month and has 1k a month to survive on whilst also paying you maintenance out of that/buying food/paying bills/ paying your mortgage too?!

honestly sounds like a wind up considering you are asking if you need to push him for more financial assistance

if he was my son I know what I’d be recommending!!!!! And it wouldn’t be to leave himself destitute whilst funding you!!! Neither of you can afford the current situation so you both ought to reach a sensible compromise

isthistheendtakeabreath · 30/11/2022 22:28

I don't have savings either

I'm having to remortgage the house - I can only get a certain amount of extra lending now due to have massive childcare bills and the second payment he'll get in 5 years max. Yes the solicitors have advised me that payment can be made in stages as it's written into the agreement if I don't make the next payment then I'll have to sell the house to give it to him

My ex can't afford to rent and pay me maintenance without his share of the equity. Same as yours.

Your ex could force a sale to get his share so you do need to be reasonable about the options

Original poster
Jw1102 · 01/12/2022 03:25

Thanks all, obvs lots to think about. As my title suggests I was trying to be fair and believed he was supposed to be paying some CM, as did he. Hadn't thought about the fairness of the fundamentals of the arrangement we came to together, guess we were just relieved to have been able to afford to separate at all as so many seem to need to stay unhappily in a house together. we had thought it was in the girls interest to keep the family home if possible and this was the only way to do that. When we read about Mesher orders they seemed to fit the bill despite the drawbacks. What you say makes sense and as difficult as it is to hear, I do appreciate getting all the info and advice and will start bracing for tougher times to come. Thanks again x

OP posts:
Original poster
Jw1102 · 01/12/2022 03:29

Quitelikeit · 30/11/2022 22:07

I’ve not read the whole thread but I have read op responses

OP

so he let you remain in the family home - excellent

he is renting a flat that costs 1k a month and has 1k a month to survive on whilst also paying you maintenance out of that/buying food/paying bills/ paying your mortgage too?!

honestly sounds like a wind up considering you are asking if you need to push him for more financial assistance

if he was my son I know what I’d be recommending!!!!! And it wouldn’t be to leave himself destitute whilst funding you!!! Neither of you can afford the current situation so you both ought to reach a sensible compromise

Just to be clear, he made his financial choices and is currently on a three week holiday which is something I will never be able to afford so I wouldn't describe him as destitute. I let him off CM for 9 months as he had got into debt due to temp job loss, he had happily paid it until then, and has only just said that he wants to discuss the amount he starts paying. the whole point of my original post was that I was trying to be fair. So while I may have been naive to the reality of our current agreement, I've not been trying to rip him off.

OP posts:
Closuretime · 01/12/2022 06:16

@Quitelikeit OP said that the £1000 rent INCLUDES the exes bills.

Does he still pay towards your mortgage OP too?

Original poster
Jw1102 · 01/12/2022 06:28

Closuretime · 01/12/2022 06:16

@Quitelikeit OP said that the £1000 rent INCLUDES the exes bills.

Does he still pay towards your mortgage OP too?

No he pays nothing towards me,the girls,our house, childcare and now on everyone's advise I guess no CM either. He doesn't buy any clothes for them etc, just feeds and houses them 2 nights and whatever else he chooses/needs to spend on them when they are together.

OP posts:
Closuretime · 01/12/2022 06:37

@Jw1102 I think if he could find cheaper accommodation he could pay you.

If your in an area where rents are high even for you to sell the house. You BOTH then have a housing issue so I don't think your wrong for keeping the family home either.

Original poster
Jw1102 · 01/12/2022 07:06

Closuretime · 01/12/2022 06:37

@Jw1102 I think if he could find cheaper accommodation he could pay you.

If your in an area where rents are high even for you to sell the house. You BOTH then have a housing issue so I don't think your wrong for keeping the family home either.

Yeah that was our whole thinking about keeping the house. Neither of us believe our current arrangement is ideal but housing two children probably long term in one bed flats full time is not what we believed was best. Fair enough right now they'd only lose their toys and garden but in a few years they will have no privacy and no space for friends which just seems wrong. Will start playing the lottery! Grin

OP posts:
Gh12345 · 01/12/2022 07:20

If you both have a good relationship then go with what he can afford - not everything had to be bound by Child maintenance rules. Do what works for you

Gh12345 · 01/12/2022 07:23

Just seen your recent post there op - I do think he should commit to at least a minimum amount per month and not £0… that’s not acceptable.