Long Distance Dad

[Eric7]

Hi,

Just wondering how kids relationships have changed with long distance dads. Going through a toxic divorce and sadly likely to move back to home town.

I've read posts on how to maintain relationships via Skype, sending letters, presents etc. I probably at best will be staying in a hotel every couple of weekends to see my two and then they'll stay with me half school holidays.

Have read varying posts about it being quality over quantity in terms of time spent.

I want to be part of their lives. They are 6 and 8. I love them both but I have a stronger relationship with my son (daughter worships her mum). But the toxic environment my ex has created here has made staying impossible as I have no support network here anymore.

Would appreciate any comments from mums / dads. Appreciate I'll be labelled a disney dad. Or a glorified uncle. But I guess any advice on how to make such an arrangement work, and whether kids still have a good relationship with their dad if he lives some distance away.

Cheers

It doesn’t work like that re spousal
courts will always try to get a clean break where possibke

if both parties are young, they will look not only at earnings but potential earnings and the expectations will be on her to achieve financial independence as soon as possible. plus pensions etc gave long time to be built up Eg not unreasonable for support for say 12 months but after that exidctex to support herself
wuth the ages of your children she will be deemed able to work full time

soubds like she’s in for a bit of a shock
gone are the days where you’ll be expected to keep her

Difficult as it is for you, you need to seperate out the financial part from the arrangements for your children (this is why child arrangement orders and financial settlements are handled seperately)
If you really have to move away from your ex (which I fully understand as I had to from my ex husband) then look at how near you can settle to where your children are rather than automatically heading back to the familiar .. could you go half way between the two so you've got support nearer but are not doing masses of driving and relying on hotel rooms, because that really won't work and you'll end up as 'disney dad'
Rent somewhere for the time being where your children can stay, get a contact schedule sorted out whilst all the other crap is rumbling away in the background and be as consistent as you can possibly be right now. Things don't get resolved overnight, it's often an uphill struggle, but if you can keep that consistency then you and your children will benefit hugely.

Surely spousal support is for a situation in which she cannot work because she has been a SAHM parent, and that is needed for the DC? In which case, I would expect that as the DC get older, she would be expected to start working and any spousal support would be reduced. It can be quite difficult for her to suddenly decide to start working , in the middle of a divorce, while supporting the DC etc so I don't entirely blame her for not rushing to find a job but of course, in the medium to long term she'll need to become more financially independent.

So your settlement is going to take into account that she's the resident parent and, conceivably, what earning and earning potential she has lost as a result of being a SAHP. Arguably, your job and career has also benefited from her being a SAHP so that's a factor too. Then there will be child maintenance payments - if you are a high earner I'd expect those to be fairly substantial and ideally, you'd top them up to ensure that your children are able to maintain, as much as possible, the lifestyle they enjoyed before.

This seems reasonable to me.

If you really want 50/50 and can prove that will be good for the DC, then you'll need to stay local, obviously.

I agree with pp, I think there will be some negotiation based on the needs of each party with a view to looking after dc.

My solicitors said that I was lucky my ex had offered a share of his bonus - it would be hard to demand that - and I would be expected to prepare myself to work although as he is an earner (6 figure salary) and I had a long marriage I would be entitled to spousal maintenance for an agreed period of time. The fact I also gave up work to care for two children who turned out to have autism / adhd (one with high needs and countless medical appointments to organise) actually means that I might not be able to work again which I hate.

Op there’s a possibility your ex has one of those solicitors who says what she wants to hear and has promised her the world. It could get expensive.

Go to mediation with a view to you staying in the area and dividing the money fairly. I lost friends when my ex left but have a new set and a new partner so in two years your life could be very different.

It does sound hard, but your focus seems to be on 'being your best self' and finances. Moving 200 miles away will not be in your children's best interests. You cannot be a proper parent to children you barely see. And whatever your feelings are about your ex, effectively being a lone parent is difficult and relentless.

It’s not reasonable for op to keep op ex in the house, pay spousal and cms while leaving himself unable to afford to house himself adequately to allow children to stay comfortably with him all the while with his ex not working
the children are 6/8 - no reason at all both parents can’t sign full time and use wrap around care as millions of working parents do

If I stayed then I'd want to work as a team and both take responsibility for childcare and financials. I for one would probably benefit from understanding the true difficulty of raising children. However whichever option has been discussed, it has ended in no interest in working together and me providing financially.

Your ex wife sounds awful - but that’s irrelevant

your kids are there

if you choose to move away you are choosing to move away from your children

at least be honest with yourself about it

my mothers husband moved away from his kids when he went through an awful divorce because he wanted to come back to the support of his home town

so he left his two kids living in a toxic shitshow and flew them over for school holidays. He’s a self centred dick.

it always baffled me when parents move away because of the support they need instead of thinking about the support their children actually need from them as a parent

its not about how awful your ex is - it’s about what your children need

For clarity she is a good mum. The kids love her. It's just with me that things are bad!

Can I give you some input - you are both in a stressful fear based place with lots of hurt and grieving the marriage ending. Both undoubtedly worried about finances and what the future looks like.

Please recognise it as fear and that is likely to be causing both parties to fight.

Your ex isn't thinking of treating you as a cash cow, she can't just imagine how she will raise 2 children and work full time. I'm making this assumption based on your comments she was your best friend and is a good mum.

Most mums end up financially weaker after divorce. That is the reality and backed up by official data so whatever happens she is likely to be worse off financially.

It ALWAYS feels impossible to split one household into two and does require each party to have a different life style. That's difficult emotionally and practically for parties to accept.

Please don't go for 50/50 just to hack her off or to not make CMS payments. All it will do is make the children suffer as 50/50 only works if both parents are amicable. If you are not amicable then 50/50 will be a war zone for your children.

I would really encourage you to focus on what is best for the children. Look at realistic properties your ex could move to, select those you are happy for your children to live in. Work on cms and maybe some spousal maintenance for several years so your ex can get back into work. Consider a tapered approach, given your youngest is 6 consider 5 years until secondary school, gradually declining until CMS (remember CMS is the minimum)

If you have a high income I'm assuming you have skills in managing difficult situations? deploy those skills...your children really need one parent to change from fighting to problem solving. Be that person.
A family member went through a divorce. He made a generous settlement and whilst it was difficult for him at the time he is now completely fine financially and his ex and children have a great relationship. That is priceless.

@Fireflygal . Your answer is completely sensible and if I was dealing with a reasonable person I would work towards that solution. But the whole separation process has been unpleasant (she walked into my home office a dropped the news she had filed for divorce with a smile on her face. 10 mins before I had a Teams call with a load of clients). If she is worried then she hides it really well as she is the one who is all smiley and fun with the kids.

I for definite have been worried. She has continued with her lifestyle. When we separated she could have started looking for work and we could have started working as a team on the work / child care balance. She did not. She continued to spend her days in the gym / running, doing hobbies when the kids were in school.

And there is a whole host of stuff prior to separation that made my life miserable for the 2 years leading to it. And quite a bit of underhand / surprising revelations during mediation which caught me off guard.

So in short it is all this that has made me want to run away to my safe place (i.e home town).

But if I stay I worry if we will ever be able to work as a team with the children. And also, whilst I wish I could be generous in any settlement, I simply cannot accept a situation where my life is destroyed and I have to start from scratch whilst she benefits from a generous asset split and maintenance.

I wanted to be more involved with the kids. But as she refused to go back to work when they were both in school, I have not had a choice but to continue the long hours and stress.

And yes I deal with difficult people at work. The key difference is they are rationale and may have a view, but it is backed up with some form of rationale argument. With my ex there is no view (eg I asked her how we could afford 2 houses living here, her response was I come up with the solution).

So I question if staying here is even a good idea if we are going to be acting like this in a co parenting situation. Maybe we will reach a compromise on mediation. But it would require a complete about turn from her regarding the stance she has taken on things.

Sorry. I sound proper bitter here. I am using this as therapy so please invoice me for your time!

How much do you earn op? That’s probably going to impact the outcome. If it’s 100k vs 500k etc

unless the latter she’ll be expected to support herself

It really is worth telling yourself over and over that your ex can think what she wants, solicitors can write what they want (or more often what they are asked to write) the emotional toll is huge.
The financial side will all be written down and then a division of assets agreed. She will not be able to sit and state that she doesn't want to work etc, your children are school age therefore she will be expected to work full time. Should you be 200 miles away then you feed into the financial situation that she is on her own with everything.

Maintenance is set by the CMS at specific minimum rates (I can't remember what the % is for 2 children) and based on how often they would be staying with you. That's based on your net income.

Have you had legal advice on what your ex could expect from a financial settlement, because believe me what your ex thinks and the reality are vastly different things.

@millymollymoomoo Basic salary is 90k but bonus is 110k. But I work in property and as always when things are good then they are good. But the housing cycle when markets fall means our income drops, and bonuses drop accordingly! I cannot believe the next 4 years are going to be as good as previous 4! But her assumption is the 200k is a given each year so I can afford to fund my lifestyle and hers.

DH moved over 300 miles away from his DD (from NE to London) as he was working there M-F anyway. Even though he had to go to court to secure regular contact, he flew up every other weekend when she was little and every 3 weeks when she was older, staying in a hotel. It was very difficult for him to keep in contact between visits, but he had a good relationship with her grandparents who took her to school so he used to send letters there for them to read to her. She stayed in London for a week in Easter/Xmas hols and 2 weeks in summer, plus Oct half term. Flights, hotels and car hire cost us a fortune.

Now she's in her teens contact is much easier - she has never known him live anywhere near her home town. We had to move overseas for work and now she does the unaccompanied minor thing on the flights and comes to stay here too.

Every situation is different but as you say, your wellbeing matters too.

OP, I want to be sympathetic because it sounds like you've been completely blindsided. But... you say you have a fairly hardcore job, long hours etc. If she had gone back to work - how do you think it would have worked in terms of wraparound childcare/housekeeping/holidays etc? In your discussions about there returning to work did you ever discuss that? I often hear men complaining that their wives didn't go back to work when the children were older but they seem to think that a minimum wage job, with no career prospects that works around school hours is a) acceptable and desirable and b) easy to find. Similarly, be completely honest - while you've been working and earning money and growing your career, how much easier was it because she was at home? Sure, she might have had hobbies or spent time at the gym, but she was also the one the school called with a sick child, did she organise meals and cooking and shopping? How much time did you actually have to spend THINKING about anything, never mind doing anything for the house/children?

I'm not trying to give you a hard time. But I do think you need to try and see a different side.

I speak as someone whose DH was a SAHP and now works part time around school hours. There is no chance in hell that I could have had the career I've had, or earned the money I have, if I didn't have him as back up in that way. I am also a woman who still somehow seems to hold the bulk of the mental load, and resents it, so I tend to work on the assumption that a SAHM is very very likely to hold 99% of the mental load.

@NotLactoseFree I agree. I dont fully appreciate how difficult it can be being a stay at home mum. With work I could have looked to go 4 days a week, reduced my fee target (as I jointly run a team) and take more of an overseeing role. I think that could have worked. But it would definitely have impacted salary.

And if you are forced into a situation then I hope it forces you to make a decision and action it, rather than just continue. So my hope would have been she went back to her old career (which paid a decent salary of £50K to £70K) and I reduce my hours. And we end up about the same salary wise, but more respect for each other as we fully appreciate work and childcare. It would have brought us more aligned with each other. But it never was an option.

@Eric7 okay, that's good that you were willing to go part time but.... let me ask you this, on the four days, who would have dropped the DC at school/collected them? Can you genuinely, hand on heart, say that you absolutely would have taken on at least half the load of the endless emails from school re trips, money, arts projects? Would you have been involved in organising play dates and holidays? Would you have cooked and meal planned for at least half of your four days working and on the day you weren't working?

Has she said why she wants a divorce? Because it sounds like you weren't getting on for a long time before that.

Personally, I think it's perfectly reasonable not to offer part of your bonus long term. I'd be inclined to offer her a generous settlement up front, child maintenance with some spousal maintenance worked in on a long term sliding scale. Then agree that if your bonuses are above certain amounts you'll give xx% for use for the DC to have holidays etc.

I hate this assumption on mn that women with children can’t work /can only do low paid jobs / have to do all school drop offs pick ups!

it’s perfectly possible to have both

i had two children a year or so apart, worked full time, took 6 months maternity with each, was earning c70k at the time, progressed up when they were young, 10 years later earn 150k

we used combination of nursery/breakfast clubs, after school clubs/ annual leave etc. done every sports day, parents evening, assembly etc. Of course I appreciate it depends what industry you are in and not all jobs allow that if shifts etc, but this notion of self sacrificing women who are incapable of earning as soon as they have children is nonsense.

why can’t ops ex work? Why can’t she go back to her previous field? Of course it may take e a little time but should absolutely be expected. Instead she simply doesn’t want to because she wants op to work his arse off and hand it all to her for the ‘sake of the children’ and her lifestyle to remain unchanged regardless of wanting a divorce ! Terrible and disgusting attitude ! If she really was thinking of the children she’d be looking for ways to reach sensible compromises and accept things need to chsnge to allow op a relationship with his children in suitable accommodation near to them

@millymollymoomoo I have so much respect for you and any woman who manages to do this as I bet the reality is that it hasnt been 50:50 with the dad. Before things went wrong, for me it wasnt about her going back to a career and then working hard to get promotion. She is very bright but never had the ambition to go up to a director / managerial position. Which is fine. I never pressured her.

But now it is point blank refusal to do full time. She worked part time for a bit and when i asked her if she was going to start contributing something to household expense, I got a point blank no as she needs savings to cover solicitors fees.

And I dont know if I am going to get kicked for this. But when I ask my daugther what does mummy do. She says go gym and cook food for us (ie her and son). Now that is nice. But I really dont know if it is the right example / role model for a daughter.

I am treading on ice here, but I want my daughter to be empowered by her mum and not just assume men work, women stay at home.

No it was not 50:50 and I always carried 99% of mental load and still do, but that’s another story !

it’s been hard at times, exhausting, but I want to be a good role model to my children

1. with hard work and determination anything can be achieved
2. if you want something go work for it and earn it
3. be financially independent even if you meet the love of your life

OP you’ll get through this. Don’t walk away from your children, you’ll regret it

@millymollymoomoo You're kids will turn out brilliantly. You're a great role model. My ex's mum went through a divorce and got a mesher and basically went into not a good place during my ex's teenage years. I really dont know if that has affected her thinking / attitude (or indeed if she is get legal advice from her mum). I would have thought that would instill a sense of desire to be independent.

A lot has changed in divorce settlement and child arrangement orders since your exes mum went through it.. for a start there's no legal aid in the majority of cases, you are expected to attend mediation before your case even gets before a judge, the list goes on...

@Eric7, Fair play for updating. Stick around on the site, many people going through a divorce get lots of support. You won't be able to control your ex's actions but you can control how you react. A tip is to delay any response if you are feeling emotional.

If you are unsure if income then you can have a financial arrangement that flexs should our income alters significantly.

Are you having any counselling? Do you know why your ex decided to end the marriage?

@Fireflygal Thanks. I am just waiting to restart mediation and take it from there. I just want to be able to restart my life. Hopefully with my children near me. Meet someone and feel normal again. I haven't had counselling. I probably should.

Why she ended it. We started arguing about things we never argued about. I wasn't as supportive as I could have been when our first child came (I focused on work and to get promoted ASAP as we were struggling financially). She went back on a promise to return to my home town i ever was unhappy here. And whilst i accepted it I was down for a while about it and she wasn't really there for me.

All these things were like a cancer which ate away at our relationship. We did counselling for 12 months. I tried. She wasn't really interested. So gave up.

Now we hate each other. 22 years. To be honest I think 14 of them were definitely good. But then I am not so sure.