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Divorce/separation

Here you'll find divorce help and support from other Mners. For legal advice, you may find Advice Now guides useful.

Original poster

When is fair fair Pension vs House

131 replies

PaulaBawla · 23/05/2022 16:49

In the same predicament as half the country it seems DH has moved out married way too long and 2 grown up children who have fled the next and we are in the process of splitting up.

He is going for either 50/50 or me 60 him 40. The stumbling block is his pension.

Hes offered me the house (about £1m) and business t/o 250k a year in return for him getting a small cottage (about 360k and him keeping his DB pension about £630k).

Im saying I want half the pension the business and the house or I can’t afford the upkeep (which would be about 70/30 to me).

But has said that’s ok if he gets half the house?!!! (again 50/50 apart from the business) but that would mean me having to sell up which I don’t want to do.

In the end can/could the court force me to sell and does my offer seem reasonable my solicitor is hesitant and his solicitor is well not very cooperative…

OP posts:
greatblueheron · 23/05/2022 17:49

Your solicitor is hesitant for a reason; you are being unfair.

Soontobe60 · 23/05/2022 17:50

PaulaBawla · 23/05/2022 17:48

Yes I leave the money in the business or use tax efficient ways to get the money out of the company, but my salary as far as NIC is concerned is £12k

Tax efficient - tax avoidance

Bobbybobbins · 23/05/2022 17:53

I think 50/50 is fair. You may need to carry on working and/or buy a house that is cheaper to run.

titchy · 23/05/2022 17:54

PaulaBawla · 23/05/2022 17:48

Yes I leave the money in the business or use tax efficient ways to get the money out of the company, but my salary as far as NIC is concerned is £12k

But that's your choice - you could choose to take £100k of dividend a year and put it all into a pension. Do that for three years and it's worth half of your ex's'

And you're not being generous or reasonable by not asking for something you're not entitled to (maintenance) so don't try and frame that as you being nice.

OnceUponAThread · 23/05/2022 17:54

PaulaBawla · 23/05/2022 17:48

Yes I leave the money in the business or use tax efficient ways to get the money out of the company, but my salary as far as NIC is concerned is £12k

Your dividends will be taken into account as income in divorce.

  • There's no case for maintenance - you out-earn him.
  • Your pension needs to be included.
  • He won't be expected to subsidise your early retirement.

What he's offering you is very generous indeed. If you fight back you're likely to get far, far less.

LittleOwl153 · 23/05/2022 17:55

I guess the question to ask is would you be happy with the cottage and half his pension? As that is what you are asking of him.

I would probably out aside the business as it sounds like if you don't work in it itndoesnt exist is that correct? So it has very little residual value without its key staff member?

Sadly divorce leads to the splitting of assets and very few get to keep a house of such value when there are no resident children so you need to be prepared to give up on the pension and use the business to build your own or sell the house.

titchy · 23/05/2022 17:56

LittleOwl153 · 23/05/2022 17:55

I guess the question to ask is would you be happy with the cottage and half his pension? As that is what you are asking of him.

I would probably out aside the business as it sounds like if you don't work in it itndoesnt exist is that correct? So it has very little residual value without its key staff member?

Sadly divorce leads to the splitting of assets and very few get to keep a house of such value when there are no resident children so you need to be prepared to give up on the pension and use the business to build your own or sell the house.

She does run the business - it's him that doesn't do anything with it, he has another job.

BritInUS1 · 23/05/2022 17:58

PaulaBawla · 23/05/2022 17:48

Yes I leave the money in the business or use tax efficient ways to get the money out of the company, but my salary as far as NIC is concerned is £12k

But how are you getting it out?

Presumably you are taking dividends ?

In which case your income isn't £12k is it

Sounds like, for once on here, your ex is being fair

Original poster
PaulaBawla · 23/05/2022 18:00

Sorry yes regarding the business we set it up and he maintains it in terms of looking after the websites etc I do all the orders selling etc. He will research new ideas and then I get them made. But that doesn’t take much the bulk of it is me. In fact since he moved out he has only been looks after the technical side really

OP posts:
Classicblunder · 23/05/2022 18:01

So he is proposing:

A 360k house for him, a £1 million for you
A £120k income for you, £50k for him
£80k savings for you, £10k for him

The only thing in his favour being £650k pension pot Vs 120k for you.

I can't believe you think that is unfair in anyway.

If you want to retire early, you can sell your house.

MrMrsJones · 23/05/2022 18:01

Don't forget both your savings..

You £80
Him £10

So that needs to be split

MsMoody · 23/05/2022 18:06

I’m the adult child of parents who were in this situation- my mother unfairly going after my father’s pension damaged my opinion of her pretty much irreparably. Are you going to give him half your own pension too?

Safe to say I am very switched on when it comes to my own pension now!

Original poster
PaulaBawla · 23/05/2022 18:07

The issue is if I sell then I would have to move areas or downsize completely which I don’t want to have to do. I just wanted to know if I could be forced to sell if he insisted on splitting house/pension

OP posts:
titchy · 23/05/2022 18:12

He's not insisting on splitting the house and pension is he? You're getting the house. Plus a massive income which will give you a very good pension. And £80k of savings.

OnceUponAThread · 23/05/2022 18:14

PaulaBawla · 23/05/2022 18:07

The issue is if I sell then I would have to move areas or downsize completely which I don’t want to have to do. I just wanted to know if I could be forced to sell if he insisted on splitting house/pension

And we have all told you, yes you could (and likely would) be forced to sell the house.

Once we add in the fact that:

  1. your income is more than twice his (or there's enough profit for take an income that is)
  2. you've not included your dividends.
  3. you've not included your savings (£80k vs £10k)
  4. you're not valuing the business properly
  5. you're not putting your own pension on the table

What you're suggesting is ludicrous. It would never be signed off.

His lawyer should be telling him to put ALL that on the table and going for 50/50 of all of it.

At the very least I'd be looking at a share of the business dividends and 50% of the profits of / when sold.

The fact that you don't want to move or downsize could not be less relevant. You're expecting him to do so.

Bouledeneige · 23/05/2022 18:14

You are being unreasonable. Why on earth do you think you deserve more than 50 percent? We have a no blame divorce system.

Of course the courts will recommend selling the house if you can't fairly find another way to split the assets 50:50. Most people have to sell the house when they divorce or downsize significantly because you have to know fund two households rather than one and each be responsible for paying your own way in life.

Original poster
PaulaBawla · 23/05/2022 18:14

He has said if I want half his pension he will want half the house which he knows I can’t afford, that’s the problem, which makes it so unfair.

OP posts:
Herbyhippo · 23/05/2022 18:14

Sorry but just to clarify you keep £113000 in retained Profit (after All expenses) in your business bank account every year? So your business bank account is growing by 113k per annum? And he doesn’t want any of that?

If that is genuinely the case and you can have 450k in your business bank account in 3 years time (as presumably you already have last years retained profit still in there). Then I’d let him have the pension and I’d use the retained profit from the limited company to retire in a few years. Your accountant/an IFA may be able to suggest ways to invest it.

Classicblunder · 23/05/2022 18:15

PaulaBawla · 23/05/2022 18:07

The issue is if I sell then I would have to move areas or downsize completely which I don’t want to have to do. I just wanted to know if I could be forced to sell if he insisted on splitting house/pension

But it's not all about what you want? The split proposed is already massively in your favour

OnceUponAThread · 23/05/2022 18:15

Also needing half his pension for upkeep on the house is an utterly ludicrous argument given the scale of the business and the fact you have your own pension and savings, and at least a decade as a higher earner to boost your own retirement savings.

I don't think I've ever read anything so out of touch and entitled

OnceUponAThread · 23/05/2022 18:16

PaulaBawla · 23/05/2022 18:14

He has said if I want half his pension he will want half the house which he knows I can’t afford, that’s the problem, which makes it so unfair.

This is entirely fair.

He could also ask for half your savings, half your pension, and for the business to be taken into account

Original poster
PaulaBawla · 23/05/2022 18:17

yes Herby, that’s sort of correct it’s not that much but business boomed because of covid so it is building up, and no he wants none of it, just to move on and live quietly (well that’s what he says) plus he says he “doesn’t want me to struggle” but insists on retaining his pension or I lose the house

OP posts:
Original poster
PaulaBawla · 23/05/2022 18:18

Sorry obviously I’ve never been through this before but is that correct? That seems hugely unfair

OP posts:
PatriciaHolm · 23/05/2022 18:19

PaulaBawla · 23/05/2022 18:14

He has said if I want half his pension he will want half the house which he knows I can’t afford, that’s the problem, which makes it so unfair.

But you can afford it,when you take in to account all your income, including dividends.

And if you can't run a large family house, well, that's one of the things that happens on divorce. Lifestyles often have to change. It's not unfair, if you both end up in the same financial position overall.

ancientgran · 23/05/2022 18:20

I think you are being very entitled, why should he come out with so much less than you? If you are in your 50s you've got at least ten years to build up your pension with the money from the business.