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Divorce/separation

Here you'll find divorce help and support from other Mners. For legal advice, you may find Advice Now guides useful.

Is this fair? Financial split and maintenance

144 replies

SweetestTidings · 12/03/2021 09:30

My brother is separating from his partner, and has asked me what I think of his proposed financial settlement. He wants feedback from me before proposing it to her.

He: earns roughly £120k to £180k yearly through his company (he is sole employee and owner, and the company has no assets - it is just a vehicle for him to offer IT consultancy). He has roughly £180k in pensions. He has no savings or other assets.

She: earns roughly £30k (or she would do, if she switched to full time). She has roughly £20k in pensions. She has no savings or other assets.

Their house is worth maybe £425k, with a mortgage of around £350k. Mortgage payments are around £1,500 per month.

They have 3 children aged 16, 13 and 10.

He is proposing:

(1) That he has the children 2 or 3 nights per week (although he thinks the eldest one will just do what she wants);
(2) That his wife keeps the family home until the youngest is 18, but that he retains 40% equity, stays on the mortgage, and pays half of it. When the youngest is 18, the house is sold and the equity split so he gets 40%. He will pay 50% of any maintenance costs on the house during this time (even though he isn't living there).
(3) That he pays child maintenance assuming an income of £150k (the "average" he earns), and assuming he doesn't have the kids at all (even though he will) - this would work out to £2k per month.
(4) That she keeps her own pensions, and gets half of his.
(5) That he pays the private school fees for the children at private school, and university living costs to the children when they reach that age.

He has no idea whether this is fair. He is concerned that he is not offering his wife much better than 50:50 in terms of assets, but his offer to pay half the mortgage is "worth" around £60k over the next few years, although he would probably get some of that back due to capital being paid off the mortgage, and possible capital appreciation if house prices go up.

Very roughly, this would work out that he pays £4,000 towards his wife, mortgage on her house, and school fees, leaving him with £3,500 monthly (on an average year) for him. On a "bad" year (like 2020) he would have much less than this for himself.

Does the above sound reasonable? Does anyone have any suggestions to make it "fairer" for either of them?

Thank you!

OP posts:
jay55 · 13/03/2021 09:29

When you say they have no savings, does he have retained profits in his business?
I do as a tax efficient way of getting through the lean times.
I just can't believe a family with high earnings and three kids has no shit happens fund.

Coffeeandcocopops · 13/03/2021 10:16

I would want the security of a house and not to be kicked out when the youngest is 18. The kids will hate him for that.

Is she part of his business ie paid a monthly salary, sleeping partner?

My two boys share a room at their dads. Prior to him getting a bigger house they slept on the sofas in the lounge for five years. He and they had no choice.

SweetestTidings · 13/03/2021 12:49

@Coffeeandcocopops

Wow - sleeping on the sofa for 5 years sounds pretty grim! I can't imagine my niece putting up with that - she'd just refuse to go!

The wife is part of the business, yes, for tax purposes and thus receives dividends - although as the business has no intrinsic value (zero assets, no cash in the bank right now) that wouldn't make a difference to the equity situation. If she stayed receiving dividends, she wouldn't be entitled to universal credit.

I spoke to my brother last night, and he plugged the financial details into a mortgage calculator for a couple of the lenders which DO take maintenance into account (thanks to whoever pointed out that such a thing exists). If she took ALL the equity in the house and took out a maximum mortgage based on her current part time hours and £2k maintenance, she could probably get a house worth £250k, less stamp duty (if payable by then) and moving costs.

That would only get her a 2 bed house in her current village, but if she moved to the next village over it would just about scrape a small 3 bed.

That would also mean no cash at all for my brother, so he would be stuck renting for sure until he could save a deposit. If he took even a small deposit of £20k for himself it would limit the wife to a 2 bed for sure.

Maybe it is a question for her - clean break but with a much smaller house and the kids sharing rooms, or keep the current house but with lack of security.

Which would you go for?

OP posts:
SweetestTidings · 13/03/2021 12:52

The renting thing might be a bit of an issue for my brother as they have lots of pets, which he would need to have on the days his wife works. I guess some rental properties allow pets, but it might restrict the options a lot.

OP posts:
timeisnotaline · 13/03/2021 13:01

It sounds very balanced to me, rather than overly generous although I appreciate it sounds that way in comparison to many. It’s just over half equity plus pensions but he keeps paying half the mortgage. If it’s a bit tight for him he can build it up again, if he keeps enough to be comfortable and makes it right for her with the kids more than 50% she is paying a heavy cost for giving the ok on his failed business.
For the rest, The cms for 0 nights sounds nice but cms amounts are pennies compared to the typical cost of bringing up children on that income at private schools. The private school presumably matters to him.

kittenpeak · 13/03/2021 13:08

Sounds generous, but He needs to think about what happens if and when he remarries / has more children. Might be the last thing he wants at the moment, but you never know

Coffeeandcocopops · 13/03/2021 13:31

Your brother earns a fantastic salary. If he gave the mother of his children the equity from the house I can’t imagine it would take him long to build up a deposit for a mortgage. Ultimately the equity will be housing his kids and I’m sure it will end up with the kids in the long run unless your ex needs care or gives it to the dog charity.

My kids wanted to see their dad so needs must they slept on the sofa. Really is a first world problem. Was only for 2 nights a fortnight so not really an issue.

I would want the freedom of my own house. No way would I want my ex telling me it has to be sold in xx years.

SleepingStandingUp · 13/03/2021 15:22

@SweetestTidings

The renting thing might be a bit of an issue for my brother as they have lots of pets, which he would need to have on the days his wife works. I guess some rental properties allow pets, but it might restrict the options a lot.
They're sharing custody of the pets?? How does your husband work whilst his ex is at work of he's having to babysit for he pets?
SleepingStandingUp · 13/03/2021 15:24

What surprises me op is he's earned on average 150k for the last few years, plus 20k from the wife. So pre tax 170k . Yet neither have any savings, there's money in the the business account so if the van breaks tomorrow there's no cash to repair it. He doesn't sound financially stable enough to be giving over half his pension, over half the house plus 4k a month.

SweetestTidings · 13/03/2021 15:46

@SleepingStandingUp

She works shifts, so the pets are left for an extended period. He works from home (not just during Covid, but anyway), so has always been there for the pets and kids when his wife is working.

Regarding the financial stability, you can call me biased if you like, but its his wife that isn't very financially responsible. She isn't great at budgeting. At all.

OP posts:
SleepingStandingUp · 13/03/2021 15:53

His business took 120k and he has no savings or money in the bank but none of it is his fault?
If he wants to provide for them and live elsewhere he is going to have to start noticing where all that cash is going

Allgirlskidsanddogs · 13/03/2021 16:18

I haven’t read the full thread. I think it sounds like a good deal for the wife.

I think limitations need to be placed on the house, such as the sale brought forward if she remarries, to be on the market when all children are out of full time education or youngest reaches 21, whichever is reached first. What happened if the house needs significant investment, for example a new kitchen?

blowonitthen · 13/03/2021 16:58

I think he should just pay the CM he owes, not more, and half the mortgage until the youngest leaves university. Yes to the 50/50 pension split but I wonder if it would be possible to freeze all the current house equity as hers, then any increase in equity between now and when the youngest leaves uni could be split 60/40? Because a split of the current pot should probably be more like 75/25 in her favour because the income disparity and caring duties, but as you point out in your OP, his proposal is less than this.

Soontobe60 · 14/03/2021 08:09

@Heartrateslowingdown

If your DB is genuine that he wants his ex and children to be adequately provided for he must encourage her to get a solicitor.
  • 50% of his current pension sounds too heavy if she has her own pension ... not fair on him
  • you cannot stop maintenance when youngest goes to university. Not fair on her or the children. What about holidays??? Plus, so many children boomerang back home. For years!
  • relying on the ex to go back to work when youngest goes to secondary is risky. Is it definitely possible to go FT? What about school Holidays? Plus term-time children still need homework / kit / friends / transport support age 11.... Who takes the youngest to netball practice / hockey games / transports to see friends, blah blah if both parents are at work at 4/5pm? When you’re already a single parent I don’t think this is an ideal plan if it’s not essential. (& with school fees in the picture it seems skewed). Although if one or both WFH & your DB stays living close by and she has a generous employer this is mitigated somewhat.

But basically - if DB wants ex to work FT he will need to pick up some of the after school slack.

It’s impossible to completely future proof the arrangement. Hopefully they can come to an agreement that works for the whole family.

Crikey, what world do you live in? Of course maintenance stops when the child reaches 18. If he chooses to pay more that can go directly to the child to support them in Uni. You do realise that millions of women, many of them single parents, work full time? In this day and age for a woman to expect to automatically be able to work part time and rely on an ex to fund this lifestyle sounds very 1950’s housewife.
QuidditchQueen · 14/03/2021 08:13

Too generous!

SleepingStandingUp · 14/03/2021 11:36

you cannot stop maintenance when youngest goes to university. Not fair on her or the children. What about holidays??? Plus, so many children boomerang back home. For years!
When the eldest goes to Uni, maintenance should drop accordingly and any support go directly to the child. Same for 2nd and then 3rd. If they're back holidays there's no reason they can't be 50/50 or they might even prefer to stay primarily with their Dad. They might not even come back except for a few days at a time.
If they move back after uni thats an arrangement between the parent they want to move back to and involved "get a job and pay board". The idea that the Dad should pay towards the house in case the kids want to return over the next 40 years is ridiculous

Howshouldibehave · 14/03/2021 11:50

My DC had only been in Y13 for a month when he turned 18 and didn’t go to university for nearly a year as his birthday is in October! It seems harsh for that to be the cut off. Imagine having to sell the family home in the middle of doing your a levels?!

SleepingStandingUp · 14/03/2021 12:56

@Howshouldibehave

My DC had only been in Y13 for a month when he turned 18 and didn’t go to university for nearly a year as his birthday is in October! It seems harsh for that to be the cut off. Imagine having to sell the family home in the middle of doing your a levels?!
Tbf I think that's why people say when they go to Uni rather than on their 18th birthday
Soontobe60 · 16/03/2021 07:26

@Howshouldibehave

My DC had only been in Y13 for a month when he turned 18 and didn’t go to university for nearly a year as his birthday is in October! It seems harsh for that to be the cut off. Imagine having to sell the family home in the middle of doing your a levels?!
When I said about maintenance finishing at 18, I actually meant it should finish when they leave school (if thats after they turn 18) and then go directly to the child when they go to Uni.
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