Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Divorce/separation

Here you'll find divorce help and support from other Mners. For legal advice, you may find Advice Now guides useful.

Is this fair? Financial split and maintenance

144 replies

SweetestTidings · 12/03/2021 09:30

My brother is separating from his partner, and has asked me what I think of his proposed financial settlement. He wants feedback from me before proposing it to her.

He: earns roughly £120k to £180k yearly through his company (he is sole employee and owner, and the company has no assets - it is just a vehicle for him to offer IT consultancy). He has roughly £180k in pensions. He has no savings or other assets.

She: earns roughly £30k (or she would do, if she switched to full time). She has roughly £20k in pensions. She has no savings or other assets.

Their house is worth maybe £425k, with a mortgage of around £350k. Mortgage payments are around £1,500 per month.

They have 3 children aged 16, 13 and 10.

He is proposing:

(1) That he has the children 2 or 3 nights per week (although he thinks the eldest one will just do what she wants);
(2) That his wife keeps the family home until the youngest is 18, but that he retains 40% equity, stays on the mortgage, and pays half of it. When the youngest is 18, the house is sold and the equity split so he gets 40%. He will pay 50% of any maintenance costs on the house during this time (even though he isn't living there).
(3) That he pays child maintenance assuming an income of £150k (the "average" he earns), and assuming he doesn't have the kids at all (even though he will) - this would work out to £2k per month.
(4) That she keeps her own pensions, and gets half of his.
(5) That he pays the private school fees for the children at private school, and university living costs to the children when they reach that age.

He has no idea whether this is fair. He is concerned that he is not offering his wife much better than 50:50 in terms of assets, but his offer to pay half the mortgage is "worth" around £60k over the next few years, although he would probably get some of that back due to capital being paid off the mortgage, and possible capital appreciation if house prices go up.

Very roughly, this would work out that he pays £4,000 towards his wife, mortgage on her house, and school fees, leaving him with £3,500 monthly (on an average year) for him. On a "bad" year (like 2020) he would have much less than this for himself.

Does the above sound reasonable? Does anyone have any suggestions to make it "fairer" for either of them?

Thank you!

OP posts:
arethereanyleftatall · 12/03/2021 16:18

@SweetestTidings
My mortgage took 100% of my salary plus 60% of my cm/sm to work it out

minniemoocher · 12/03/2021 16:18

It's a generous proposal and very similar to what I receive. I'm currently selling my house as kids are at university and I have moved away

NotDavidTennant · 12/03/2021 16:26

I think he's being overly generous in order to assuage his guilt for breaking up the relationship.

What will happen is that he will meet someone else in a year or two and she will start questioning why they are having to get by on a pittance when he earns so much. Then he will try to renegotiate the settlement with his ex and things will turn bitter.

He needs to be more realistic now to save these problems from occurring later.

SleepingStandingUp · 12/03/2021 16:29

@arethereanyleftatall

One more thing - when our mediator did it, because we had children are under 16 - it was worked out on a 'needs' basis as opposed to what is 'fair'. Ie as the primary care giver, what did I 'need' to be able to give the children the same life they were used to. Then what did ex need to be able to live off.
So you should be able to maintain the same lifestyle you did when you were together but he only needs to be able to rent a bedsit and cover the basic bills?
Coffeeandcocopops · 12/03/2021 16:57

@FullofCurryandparatha

All of the "what ifs" about the future are nonsense. If they make an agreement amongst themselves, it can be changed at any time if he earns less, or she wants to remarry etc. Trying to get him to provide a lot less than he can afford to now on the basis of things that may or may not happen is ridiculous. "Don't pay properly for your kids now in case you can't in 5 years" is a joke.

And no, she can't get a mortgage based on maintenance!

Well I did get a mortgage taking CM into account with Nationwide. My ex had to wrote a letter (which I thought was pathetic as he could stop the payments at anytime). I also had to prove that he was paying them into my bank account.

The mum needs to get legal advice. That’s the most important advice I would give.

arethereanyleftatall · 12/03/2021 17:06

@SleepingStandingUp
Not at all. For that would be silly.

SleepingStandingUp · 12/03/2021 17:19

Trying to get him to provide a lot less than he can afford to now on the basis of things that may or may not happen is ridiculous. "Don't pay properly for your kids now in case you can't in 5 years" is a joke
No one is saying a lot less. They're saying an affordable amount.

Based on last year's wages he brings home 6k.

He needs his own place. Safe to assume at least £750. His own bills (food Inc the kids, power, etc) say 500. So £1250. Then he's proposing to give her 4k. So that's 5250 and leaves him with 750 pm minus house repairs, school stuff etc.

She's taking home £1250 + 600 ish in benefits and 2k maintenance. So £3750 - minis £750 mortgage. £3k. Bills with most of kid feeding say 1k so she's got 2k spends to his 750.

You really think she's hard done to?

And on top of that he'll be expected to cover half of all the extras, hand over 10% extra house equity and half his pension whilst she keeps her own.

Rummikub · 12/03/2021 17:26

She went part time to look after the children.

Also, you said that he remortgaged the marital home to support a business. This should be taken into account on her behalf as it affects equity.

GentlemanJay · 12/03/2021 17:35

@AfterEightsBeforeEight

This sounds ridiculous, it's got to be a reverse thread. OP are you splitting from your husband and asking for this, and trying to gauge how reasonable it sounds?
I agree. It sound ridiculous.

What would maintenance be based on them actually living with him two to three nights?

GentlemanJay · 12/03/2021 17:51

When I split from my wife I wanted to separate myself as cleanly as possible. He is doing the opposite. Tying himself to her with too many what ifs and maybe.

SweetestTidings · 12/03/2021 17:54

@Rummikub

How do you mean "taken into account on her behalf". Do you mean that he should be penalised with less equity for the fact that the business failed? Presumably then by analogy you would consider that if the business had been a roaring success he should have been rewarded with additional equity?

OP posts:
WhoAreYah · 12/03/2021 17:56

Sounds extremely generous.

SweetestTidings · 12/03/2021 17:57

@SleepingStandingUp

Unfortunately, £750 for his accommodation will not even come close if he is to be able to house the children - where they live a 3 bedroom rental will start at £950pm, and even that would have the children needing to share bedrooms.

OP posts:
SweetestTidings · 12/03/2021 17:58

4 bedrooms would start at £1400pm according to Rightmove!

OP posts:
SleepingStandingUp · 12/03/2021 18:03

[quote SweetestTidings]@SleepingStandingUp

Unfortunately, £750 for his accommodation will not even come close if he is to be able to house the children - where they live a 3 bedroom rental will start at £950pm, and even that would have the children needing to share bedrooms.[/quote]
Yeah sorry it was a vague guess. I do think if they're sleeping over once a week or so they can probably slum it in a 3 bed

SweetestTidings · 12/03/2021 18:09

@SleepingStandingUp

I think his main worry with them "slumming" it and sharing rooms is that as they get older they might simply decide not to stay with him (and you can't force a teen to do anything!). He is pretty sure his eldest daughter will simply refuse to share already - if one or other of the other refuses as well, he'll be in trouble in a 3 bed!

First world problems I guess, but he is terrified of being an "arms length" parent.

OP posts:
SleepingStandingUp · 12/03/2021 18:14

So he pays rent (1000), bills(500) school fees (1250), half the mortgage (750). Say 3500 so 2500 left.

She's getting around £1900 and paying out say 1700 so has 200 left

(2500+200) / 2 = 1250. So to even it up he could pay her £1050 and split everything for school or say £1200 and she covers al school costs bar large exceptions.

SleepingStandingUp · 12/03/2021 18:15

=1375 so he pays her 1175 and splits or 1500 all in

SleepingStandingUp · 12/03/2021 18:17

Rent (1400) so 2100 left.

She's got 200 left

(2100+200) / 2 = 1200.

So he pays school fees plus 1k

foxhat · 12/03/2021 18:27

I assume she could work full time not that the kids are old enough.

I think for that to work the OP brother needs to have them more often. It's not reasonable to both expect her to work full time and expect her to do 5/7 of the child caring. A 10 year old still needs a fair degree of looking after and can't usually be on their own for hours after school.

OP, your brother could sleep in the lounge to make 3 bedrooms enough - many people do.

I think the figures are wrong too. He actually, if he pays 10% pension and averages 150K earnings, takes home 6800 a month. If they continue to choose private school, that's 2k a month leaving him 4800. He is suggesting paying 750 of that to the mortgage and giving child maintenance of 2k, leaving him with 2050 a month. I guess this will reduce. This is largely for him and then 2/7 of the time for 3 children.

She earns maybe 1300 a month, might also get 160ish child benefit now? and will pay £750 to the mortgage out of the 2k he gives for child maintenance. So she ends up with 2710 a month to pay for herself and 5/7 of the time for 3 children. My guess would be that she might stomach more of the costs for the children then he does in terms of essentials like clothes and haircuts.

His money needs to cover rent too though so you could think that he needs more but if you cut it back too much the children will be the ones to experience a change in their lifestyle.

Personally, I look at this and think the school fees is the issue. Alternatively reduce the amount given to the ex but consider some of that spousal maintenance as personally I don't think it should all stop in 18 years given that by then she will have spent 24 years being the major carer for his children.

SleepingStandingUp · 12/03/2021 18:36

The problem with average is he hasn't earned that in the last year, so there's isn't £1500 currently coming home. He needs to work out what his av per month take home was over the last year given were still in pandemic mode. So he earned 180k one year, so what of every subsequent year has been 130k?

Rummikub · 12/03/2021 23:35

@SweetestTidings
Yes I guess I do mean that.
Tbf to your brother he sounds like a decent man by placing the children at the heart of his decisions.

MorningNinja · 13/03/2021 00:38

Your DB needs to find out about the affordability of a mortgage for his ex with her CMS and earnings. Then I'd be inclined to give her alm the equity and split the pension 50/50.

Selling the house when the youngest will be 18 will be a recipe for disaster regarding his relationship with his then adult DCs.

Plus, it allows his ex to take ownership of her own life, perhaps increase her hours when it suits and then be on her feet when the DCs leave school. The other option is she finds herself in years to come with a low income, having to sell the house and plenty of animosity.

NeedToGetOuttaHere · 13/03/2021 08:07

If I was the wife I’d prefer less maintenance and to keep the house.

Heartrateslowingdown · 13/03/2021 08:42

If your DB is genuine that he wants his ex and children to be adequately provided for he must encourage her to get a solicitor.

  • 50% of his current pension sounds too heavy if she has her own pension ... not fair on him
  • you cannot stop maintenance when youngest goes to university. Not fair on her or the children. What about holidays??? Plus, so many children boomerang back home. For years!
  • relying on the ex to go back to work when youngest goes to secondary is risky. Is it definitely possible to go FT? What about school Holidays? Plus term-time children still need homework / kit / friends / transport support age 11.... Who takes the youngest to netball practice / hockey games / transports to see friends, blah blah if both parents are at work at 4/5pm? When you’re already a single parent I don’t think this is an ideal plan if it’s not essential. (& with school fees in the picture it seems skewed). Although if one or both WFH & your DB stays living close by and she has a generous employer this is mitigated somewhat.

But basically - if DB wants ex to work FT he will need to pick up some of the after school slack.

It’s impossible to completely future proof the arrangement. Hopefully they can come to an agreement that works for the whole family.