Spousal Maintenance vs Universal Credit

[sallysm]

I'm confused about how courts balance an order for spousal maintenance (SM) against universal credit, given that receiving SM results in a £ for £ reduction in universal credit (UC).

For example, let's say someone without a job and 1 preschooler, says their reasonable needs are £1200 a month, and their husband is on 40k.

So the Ex has to pay about £400 child maintenance
That leaves a shortfall of £800

Does the court order the Ex to pay £800 SM? (leaving him to live on £1100) Or do they tell the person to claim the £800 (as possible) from UC instead?

Just to add i was working at the time we divorced but very part time, i have always worked and through changes of jobs and promotions i mde sure i didnt have to rely on the SM so when it stopped it didnt leave a big gap in my income.

There is a world of difference between what people may agree informally on a voluntary basis and what a court will order.

If you're set on trying to get SM, you do realise that if he got remarried it would stop? Or if he went back to court to have them reconsider? And that you'd be expected to actually work yourself at some point?

Spousal maintenance IS possible on any salary. There is no doubt about that fact in law.

Your solicitor will encourage you to go for it as it adds to her bill.

There is no way you would be awarded spousal maintenace,

OP I get the impression you are only responding to people who are saying what you want to hear !
As virtually every other person has said you are very , very unlikely to be awarded SM . I divorced over 30 years ago and wasn’t awarded SM despite ex earning 4x what I did . Court decided I worked and had promotion chances .
I only know of 1 person who has received SM and she was married to an extremely wealthy man for 25+ years and had given up her career to raise children .
Not sure if you have said but how long were you married ?

@sallysm
Please don’t think I agree with you. I think SM is utterly appalling in this day and age but I do have experience of a relatively low earning man having to pay spousal maintenance.

It does not stop when he remarried, but would if she does.

It’s not only for high earners.

Your solicitor can advise you if your morals don’t step in first.

You are deluded. Sorry.

It is a MN myth that it’s only awarded to rich men with women who stayed at home.

But what is fact is that women who apply for it have no idea how pathetic and weak they are, how their self esteem must be so low they’ll allow a man who no longer wants anything to do with them to keep them! Makes my blood boil.

Work for it!!

I have a friend who became disabled during her 25 year long marriage. There was a car accident caused by her ex husband. She did get a payout from the accident from his insurance policy. Her ability to work was severely compromised. Her ex had his own business and was able to put 2 children through private school but they rarely went out or spent money on holidays or anything. He was probably bringing in around £100,000 per year before tax.
On divorce when the youngest had just turned 18 she ended up with 60% of the total assets. No spousal maintenance. No child maintenance as the youngest was no longer a child. She was advised not to even try as she wouldn’t get much and the cost out weighed what she would have got if she pursued it. Instead she went for a bigger share of the pot as she could prove financial abuse.

Unless there is some huge back story that you have been beaten black and blue and have police reports etc you need to stop trying to look for ways to screw money out of your ex.
The only person who will end up with more money is the lawyers.
Depending on the length of the marriage and what was brought to the marriage you will be looking at 50% of the total matrimonial pot.

Yes you might find a solicitor who says they will go after him for every penny he has and tell you what you want to hear but you won’t like the bills they presents to you.
You need money to pay the solicitor whilst this is ongoing. Can you afford to stump up several thousand pounds of your own money before the divorce is finalised.
Solicitors need to know you can pay them before they will take you on. Even if you end up in the house and on Universal Credit the solicitor is going to want to know where the cash is coming from to pay his bill and if that means you have to sell the family home if that is the only source of cash to pay them then most if not all solicitors aren’t going to recommend you stay in the family home till your youngest is 18 and they can then get paid.

@AnxiousSM Can you roughly say what the salary was and how much SM was awarded? Or was it like others say, a £1 minimum amount, left open for variation in the future? Just keen to see how it aligns with what others have said. But I appreciate the point you're making.

@sallysm how often will your ex have your child? Have you discussed it yet?

OP no I won’t help you screw your ex husband. Work for it.

I wish it was £1 - total bullshit.

I do object to the vilification of spousal maintenance.
If a couple take a joint decision to operate as a unit, to divide roles and responsibilities a certain way and to live with both the pros and cons of those decisions - then this should be reflected at separation when they disband the unit.

If that means one party requires funding from the other to offset their earning potential being damaged by not working for a set period then I think its perfectly fair.

I think too many people allow the family unit to be arranged in this way without thinking through the long term implications.

There ought to be a compulsory seminar/paperwork to sign when people apply to get married!

@AnxiousSM It won't help me screw my Ex, everyone else has given plenty of reasons why it seems unlikely that this should be a chosen course of action. I was just looking for you to substantiate your argument with a few figures like everyone else has done, since it seems to contradict all the pages of replies that others have given. Which is why I wanted to clarify, what is the reality? The one you portray, or that everyone else does? Also, was your experience based before or after the UC reforms, which means that at the time SM was awarded, it was not discounted from UC, whereas, now it is. Obviously it looks like I'll have to claim UC at some point - and if claiming SM also, simply results in no increase in income, BUT solicitor costs, it doesn't sound worth it.

You are vanishingly unlikely to be awarded SM.

Did you ever answer if your DH would go for 50/50 shared care or 2/3 nights a week @sallysm?

It doesn’t really matter what anyone says on here - whether someone has experience of SM being awarded on a low salary.
You’ll either have to make an agreement with your ex to pay SM or you’ll have to pay 000s to a solicitor to argue in court for SM. No one here can tell you whether or not your ex will agree to the first point or not.
Go to a solicitor see what they say the likely outcome is - this will probably be the best case scenario so manage your expectations.
But remember your thoughts on what he can live on are irrelevant. You’ll just come across as grabby as frankly you are here.

I think there is a difference with what the law states and the reality of someone’s situation and the loopholes that people jump through to not pay

Yes it might be possible to get spousal maintenance even if your ex is only earning £40,000 per year but the amount you would get is not only negligible and would probably cost more in the solicitors bill, it is so open to abuse. Someone on a lower salary if asked to pay towards his ex wife for the rest of his life might just decide that it isn’t worth slogging away at work and decide to leave f/t employment all together in which case the expensive costing and hard won spousal maintenance stops. If the ex then decides to work cash in hand or finds what they are left with is less than doing a minimum wage job which means the spousal maintenance is never going to be reinstated why would they not do that

The impression I am getting is that the ex is doing a f/t job that earns £40,000 per year so you say comes out with around £2300per month.
You said that he only needs £1300 per month so he could pay you £1000 per month Spousal maintenance.
Why would he want to slog himself into an early grave to pay an ex wife for the rest of his days and not take a part time job that paid £1300 per month.
No money for you and he isn’t any worse off.

The reason that SM only really applies to those on £150,000+ is because they are unlikely to want to reduce their own lifestyle to the point of a minimum wage job. The amount of sm that they pay isn’t going to go away if they reduce their income by that amount.

They dont actually pay the £1 a year. My solicitor led me to believe it is to keep the channel open if something unforeseen happens regarding the welfare of your child preventing you from earning, then you have the option to go back through the court for increased SM.

Or it is easier to take to court if it transpires that money/assets have been hidden

I think it’s a fallacy that solicitors will egg you on to make ridiculous bids to the courts so as to increase their profits. If someone is intent on abusing the court system then they will find legal representation to assist them in the process, but most lawyers will advise you against doing something that is likely not going to work out in your favour.

@LivingMyBestLife2020

SM should be abolished unless in really specific circumstances.

A male friend of mine has been completely shafted by the system. He has is own business and the business is very profitable. It only became really profitable in the last 4 years. They’d been married 10 years when my friend was a low earner.

2 small children, had after the business became something. She had an affair and kicked my friend out of the substantial family home. Almost immediately she’d move her affair guy in with the kids, my friend was understandably heartbroken. She said he spent too much time at work.

Through the divorced, she got the house and £3k per month (SM and CM combined) until the kids go to secondary school and then it drops to £2k per month.

He accepted it reluctantly as he’s a high earner and wants his kids cared for. He has his kids Friday afternoon to Sunday evening every weekend. He wanted 50/50 but work won’t allow it.

She never gave up a career, she worked in a supermarket when they met and she gave that up when the money started rolling in and kids came along. She didn’t lose anything, only gained.

Every woman should have some self respect and at least try and support themselves. It is something that irritates me. Entitled women.

Or arguably, she supported him establish a business, living at a far lower standard of living for all those years. Now she obviously behaved appallingly, but why should he then only benefit from the good time too? The bone of contention for me, however, is for how long these orders should be paid. Now obviously your friend can get the SM reviewed annually if finance circumstances change as they may have due to covid.

What I mean is lawyers make enough money, they are not usually stressed about where the next pay check is coming from.

Yes in a divorce money will be eaten up by the lawyers when parties just can’t agree, or one person is insistent on dragging the other through the courts & wasting time arguing over petty matters. But that is down to the individual who is insistent on draining the asset pool to have petty fights in court.

It’s not the fault of the lawyers when people can’t/won’t mediate to reach a reasonable settlement.

OP, I won’t go over points others have made, but I will stress that in my experience of people I know paying SM, all are high earners. Think £100k plus.

Financial settlements in court can end costing thousands as you have to pay solicitors costs and the cost of a barrister. With it for high earners, not so much for lower earners. You can represent yourself but it’s a hard slog!

Have you suggested mediation? It could be that you could reach an agreement that your ex pays a top up for a certain period of time until you find suitable work?