Spousal Maintenance vs Universal Credit

[sallysm]

I'm confused about how courts balance an order for spousal maintenance (SM) against universal credit, given that receiving SM results in a £ for £ reduction in universal credit (UC).

For example, let's say someone without a job and 1 preschooler, says their reasonable needs are £1200 a month, and their husband is on 40k.

So the Ex has to pay about £400 child maintenance
That leaves a shortfall of £800

Does the court order the Ex to pay £800 SM? (leaving him to live on £1100) Or do they tell the person to claim the £800 (as possible) from UC instead?

"He pays into his own pension and into mine"

THIS HAS GOT TO BE A WIND UP

Just to be clear OP I can not access the pension money until I reach retirement age. It is just sitting in the account with pension company.

If the EXH has to remain on the mortgage they are indemnified should the EW (in this case) default on the payment. The consequences of default are with the ExW
Even when the OP isn't on the mortgage at all?

How does it work? Does the bank go after the OP for payment even though their contract is with her ex?

Are you SURE you want to divorce this man, OP? Have you put the wheels in motion yet?

I'm unclear how anyone is supposed to survive on £40k a year whilst paying:

• the mortgage on the property the ex is living in
• rent/mortage on the property they are living in
• child maintenance
• spousal maintenance (lol!)
• spousal pension contributions (even lollier!)

Is anyone else so invested in this thread because they're just so astonished at the sheer entitlement that just BLEEDS out of every post.

Half of me hopes it's not real because it's horrifying to think there are people like this out there, but the other half is petrified that it is real and just feels so sad for the (ex)husband. We don't know what he's done so wrong, but I think he'd probably be a bit concerned to learn that signing marriage vows means (according to OP), supporting this woman for the entire rest of her life, as she's made it crystal clear she has no intention of working for her own money one day.

@theantsgomarchin

Is anyone else so invested in this thread because they're just so astonished at the sheer entitlement that just BLEEDS out of every post.

Half of me hopes it's not real because it's horrifying to think there are people like this out there, but the other half is petrified that it is real and just feels so sad for the (ex)husband. We don't know what he's done so wrong, but I think he'd probably be a bit concerned to learn that signing marriage vows means (according to OP), supporting this woman for the entire rest of her life, as she's made it crystal clear she has no intention of working for her own money one day.

I feel exactly the same.

I wonder how the OP would/will feel if the husband chooses to have joint custody of their child and she gets no money at all!

I actually feel differently - I feel sorry for the OP, she sounds woefully under educated and quite sad.

@MaxRushden

I actually feel differently - I feel sorry for the OP, she sounds woefully under educated and quite sad.

Genuinely I am not trying to be goady here, I'm honestly curious which part of her posts sounds sad to you? Because all I can see is someone who's marriage has broken / is breaking down (for reasons she hasn't shared) and she's trying to find ways to be supported without having to work. Whether that's benefits or via her (ex) husband. She has shared that she thinks the economy will make it hard for her to find a job, but she doesn't wish to work in a supermarket. She doesn't say that she cant work, just that the jobs she thinks she can get, she doesn't want. She would rather her (ex) husband go without any luxuries whatsoever and live on the bare minimum, so that she doesn't have to take up employment in a supermarket or similar.

None of her posts, in my opinion, reflect any sadness. Sadness about her marriage ending, nope. Sadness about her child potentially being taken away from the family home? Nope.

I feel sorrier for the soon to be ex. I think that if he knew how much money she wanted and what life she thinks he should have then he'd be horrified.

I feel sorry for both

1. OP, we dont know the scenario he might be a nasty man hence she trying to get as much as possible to support their kid. She might have herself problems that make her not work.

1. Husband, I think if these has been the behaviour during their marriage, gimme gimme gimme money I'd have end up divorcing the other person If they had no interest of bringing money home themselves. Also I'd fight for having the custody of my son which would result in OP having less money

What I've got clear is that no matter the outcome OP you need to start working and surviving for yourself, do you really want to be dependant on others? what would you do If your ex didn't pay CMs? some fathers event dont do that, and yes there are works out there some better than others or riskier but ... this is life, do you think all those in the NHS love going to work risking their life? what would happen if they all quit and live of benefits because ... how am I going to put myself in danger ... others should support my ways of living. doubt any judge would give you as much money as you want if that means leaving the dad empty handed... what are you going to do when your child is 18 and there is not more financial support?

@theantsgomarchin I think you're probably right!

She just sounds so incredibly ill informed and has such a bizarre viewpoint, hard to imagine it's a real person sometimes.

I would say the only way you can stay in the marital home is if you can afford to keep up the payments otherwise it has to be sold and the proceeds divided. You might get a percentage more because you need to house the children unless you are going for 50/50 parenting in which case it will be 50/50 with no child maintenance.

I do think you need to get your head round how it all works.

Think of it as the pension, the equity in the house, cars, furniture if all sold have an amount of money attached to them.
This is then added up and divided by 2 and that is the amount you get. You might get a few percent more or less depending on your situation but that is all.
Separately you can claim child maintenance but that is a set amount reliant on what he earns. If he loses his job or doesn’t pay then you won’t get anything.
This is where the law differs from the reality.
If your ex doesn’t pay CM then you can go to the CSA for them to enforce it. However it takes the CSA about 6 months to put on an attachment of earnings so your ex has the CM deducted from his salary. However the loophole is if 5 months into this investigation your ex changes jobs then the 6 month investigation starts again. I know someone who has never paid because he moves between 2 or 3 jobs every few months.

Whilst on the face of it the law says one thing. The reality with the loopholes that people can jump through is another.

To pick up on one point mentioned a bit back in this thread, somebody mentioned that for a financial order, you only need to show 12 months of bank statements and that only those are counted. Yet I've read online you can get your Ex to be ordered to file 24 months of statements. Has anyone had experience with that? Apologies if that is off topic, just picking up on a point which was raised.

I certainly appreciate your insight into how CM and CSA work, even if some points are a little discouraging.

@sallysm you need to file and serve 12 months statements with your Form E. To get an order for 24 months (if ex won’t agree to provide) you need to show there is some reason. Courts don’t like speculative fishing exercises.

If you get awarded SM - the Ex can have it reviewed every year - and at any of those reviews it can be reduced or taken away. Most people who are even entitled to it, would instead take a slightly higher share of the assets (eg. % of the value of the house) as it at least takes away that uncertainty and allow proper budgeting.
£40,000 isn't a big salary.

Financial settlement is based on the principle of trying to provide for both parties (in a long marriage) to support a comparable lifestyle. If the funds do not allow for that they the aim is the best compromise allowing for the needs of children.

But you have no assets, its only statements during the marriage that count, your son does not live with you, OMG just quit and feel so sorry for your STBXH

even if some points are a little discouraging.

A little discouraging?

Will your child be spending any time with their dad? One night a week? Eow? 50/50. This will affect cm.

Why would you be considering divorce, sallysm ?

I think you are being extremely entitled and greedy.
You expect him to work all hours to pay for you to live a comfortable life not working.
I get you have a child.
But my circumstances are similar and I would never expect my STBXH to pay for everything and support me when he needs to also support himself. And then potentially anymore children he may have in the future with someone else.
It's his duty to support his child. Not you

Those saying that spousal maintenance is rare on a low salary are talking out of their arse!

It is possible on any salary and should be totally abolished it’s outrageous in 2021 that any self respecting woman should want to claim from a man because they refuse to earn themselves.

There are no reasons/excuses for it!

Spousal maintenance and child maintenance are 2 very different things. Child maintenance is compulsory and in most cases the amount is determined by the government CMS calculator. Child maintenance is disregarded in any benefit calculation- so you would get your child maintenance and your universal credit if not working.

You would not get spousal maintenance- this is rare and usually only awarded where one partner is a very high earner and the other has been, for example, a stay at home mother. It is there to help equalise the income situations for a period of time after the divorce.

SM should be abolished unless in really specific circumstances.

A male friend of mine has been completely shafted by the system. He has is own business and the business is very profitable. It only became really profitable in the last 4 years. They’d been married 10 years when my friend was a low earner.

2 small children, had after the business became something. She had an affair and kicked my friend out of the substantial family home. Almost immediately she’d move her affair guy in with the kids, my friend was understandably heartbroken. She said he spent too much time at work.

Through the divorced, she got the house and £3k per month (SM and CM combined) until the kids go to secondary school and then it drops to £2k per month.

He accepted it reluctantly as he’s a high earner and wants his kids cared for. He has his kids Friday afternoon to Sunday evening every weekend. He wanted 50/50 but work won’t allow it.

She never gave up a career, she worked in a supermarket when they met and she gave that up when the money started rolling in and kids came along. She didn’t lose anything, only gained.

Every woman should have some self respect and at least try and support themselves. It is something that irritates me. Entitled women.

@AnxiousSM

Those saying that spousal maintenance is rare on a low salary are talking out of their arse!

It is possible on any salary and should be totally abolished it’s outrageous in 2021 that any self respecting woman should want to claim from a man because they refuse to earn themselves.

There are no reasons/excuses for it!

@AnxiousSM what has been your experience regarding SM being award on a low salary then? You're perhaps the only person contradicting what everyone else has said - unless most people on here are venting rather than being realistic? Apart from those who have outlined their scenarios to back things up. Thanks

I got SM on a salary close to that but only because he offered it. I was told by my solicitor not to expect it (but it was worth an ask!)
His solicitor told him not to pay it but he did anyway. If it had gone to court i doubt very much it would have been agreed.
I recieved it until my youngest was 7- she was 3 when we separated.

I think you can ask him for it for a set number of years. But honestly your chances of court agreeing it are very slim.