Divorced in the most acrimonious way - and still stressed

[Bubblebu]

Is there anyone out there who is divorced in the most acrimonious way and still years and years on cannot communicate with their ex husband.

My ex husband left me 5 years ago for one of his work colleagues who he is now married to and they have a baby.

When we were married we had two children girl and boy who are now 10 and 11.

The problem is even now he is incredibly aggressive towards me on the email and if we ever speak on the phone he just RANTS at me all kinds of horrible things - and what I find most hurtful (and I think he knows it ) is when he starts saying I am a shit mother.

I find it really difficult not to take it personally and get very depressed and stressed about it.

I really am relieved we are divorced - basically I think he always emotionally abused me. But how do I toughen up and not take it personally? Today was a classic example - he and I argued most of the day on the email, he ranted and just before he came to collect our children at 5pm for his weekend I was so stressed I vomited the tiny bit of food I have eaten today. This is not the first time this has happened.

We have no physical contact and I don't feel he is a physical threat to me but he really does know how to wind me up and press my buttons. I am shaking as I type this.

It does not help that I have had breast cancer over the last 8 months and have been put into a medically induced menopause so at lot of days I feel very sick and hot flashes etc (obviously the cancer is not his fault but although I have been told that stress does not cause cancer sometimes I do wonder whether infact stress can be one factor in it).

Any tips on how to chill out and ignore his rants? many thanks

Every time u argue back u give him what he want. Learn to be a grey rock, don't argue back, ignore him. U won't give him the rise he wants and will move on

Most of our communications are about the kids but ANYTHING I ask him just because it is me asking he will automatically do the opposite.

Today we were emailing about a birthday party my son has been invited to by one of my own friends - I asked my ex to take my son to the party tomorrow - he refused - then when I gave my ex the mothers phone number all of a sudden he agreed with my friend that he would take my son to the party. It felt humiliating to me the way my ex did that.

Another example is my daughter is approaching puberty and has expressed anxiety about starting her periods if it happens at my ex's house. I emailed my ex and said as and when this happens can my daughter stay home with me so I can ease her into it gently - and my ex husband refused to agree to this request.

you are right sunlight but because I have the two children there are some things I really cannot just ignore and not communicate with him about. it is bullying and some days I find it really hard to cope with it.

yes he absolutely DOES want to wind me up

I think reading up on the grey rock method would be really helpful.

Things like the party I would send an email saying something like

Dear X,

DC1 is invited to a birthday party at Sarah's House this weekend. It's on Saturday at 2pm. I know DC1 is keen to attend. Here is Sarah's number so that you can contact her directly if you plan to attend.

Don't ask him for anything, when you do you invite him to push your buttons. You should be able to communicate with him like a rational human being but he's not behaving rationally.

thank you, you are so correct Sun.

he lives about an hours drive away so part of the reason he refuses when I ask him is because if the party is local to me (which 99% of the time it is) and it is on his weekend he then has to drive back to where I live with the kids. So he tries the whole "well you take our son to the party" to avoid having to drive back and forth. And I cannot because I don't have a car (this party was at a zoo about 40 mins drive from my house). He knows this full well but still tries it every time. And then my son gets distressed because he really wants to go to the party and I feel between a rock and a hard place.

I have thought of asking my son to ask my ex himself (he might then feel guilted into saying yes) but that also feels very wrong to ask a 10 year old to negotiate where it should just be an adult to adult conversation.
(I think obviously I am much more emotionally attached to our two kids than ex is and really want the best for them all the time)

thanks for replying sun - everything you say and suggest is right. x

he is just so so angry all the time, and I find it so hard to know when I am being a doormat or whether I am being assertive with him

also our kids don't like going to his house for his weekends and that upsets me too. he gets to dictate all weekends/ holidays he has them under our divorce court order and I feel powerless to protect them and try to move forward to a stage where the children get to decide themselves and not just go when he has dictated

Your DC are getting to an age where they will start to make their feelings known I would imagine? In 5 years time (possibly sooner) they will be in a position to manage their relationship with him themselves.

His anger is not your problem, don't engage with it. You don't need to be aggressive back to be assertive, you will never get him to "see the light" and understand that he's being unreasonable. All you're doing is tying yourself up in knots.

I would practice writing some emails to him, like the party one. Imagine his response and then think about if, and how, you might respond. I wouldn't have any communication by phone at all.

Yes.

The (rare) phone conversations are the worst - so so stressful. He just immediately goes onto a shouting tirade of "you should be ashamed of yourself you are a disgrace etc" which (if the kids over hear) upsets all 3 of us. I have tried suggesting to him that the kids are now old enough to decide whether they want to see him on his weekends or not now and that just made him so irate. (it was my son who always says "do I have to go to daddy?") which was why I tried to address it with him.

I don't have the money to go back to court to try to vary the childcare arrangements

Bubblebu I’m really sorry that your poorly 💐

Your ex is a dick but you know that. Every time you try and speak to him he bites you back because he probably really hates you. It’s easier to hate some one rather admit you’ve been a complete cunt to them.

You need to act as if he is dead. Do not ask him questions and don’t engage in conversation. He is an arsehole, arsehole act like arseholes.

Protect yourself - eg, ‘Dd has started her period so she does not want to come‘. And then ignore all correspondence after.

Your ds is old enough to tell his dad if he wants to go to a party. The parties are nothing to do with you if they are on your ex time.

He doesn’t want to co parent like you do. Most normal co parents try to have a civil relationship. This man wants zero contact from you and when you do he goes in for the kill. Take a step back. Your kids will be soon arranging their own relationship with their dad so you’ll have to deal with him even less.

I know it’s really hard and trying to do your best for your dc but sometimes you just have to be honest.

Eg, ‘son your at your dads that weekend you will have to sort it out with him’

Thanks Evel you are right

Even just now well into the evening I in between these messages I am still throwing up and I a convinced it is the re living as a type what happened today.

You are right my ex does not want any contact with me but even 5 years on I still have not mastered the grey rock technique.

He does really bizarre things which the kids hate and I have no influence over. I am very close to the head teacher of their primary school who has supported me and the kids a lot over the years. She was quite frank about the fact that my daughter would not pass the 11 plus which I was fine with.

But when ex husband found out daughter had not entered the 11 plus exam he went ballistic - I only got rid of that reaction by asking the head to speak to my ex herself which he hated because he could not argue with the head teacher.

And then bizarrely he made my daughter sit the 11 plus exam at the local grammar where HE lives one Saturday morning on one of his weekends which she really hated doing (and so far as I am aware she failed having had no preparation.

It is that kind of thing which some days I find really difficult not to get upset about on behalf of my daughter.

Anyway thank you for the replies everything you say is indeed correct.

I emailed my ex and said as and when this happens can my daughter stay home with me so I can ease her into it gently - and my ex husband refused to agree to this request.

Why are you asking his permission? You're giving him far too much power to decide things that should be your DD's decision.

If she doesn't want to go, what are you going to do? Drag her there kicking and screaming? Coerce her in some way? If she doesn't want to go, why would you force her?

I wouldn't discuss hypothetical future situations with him - she might start her periods elsewhere and you'll have been arguing for nothing anyway. He clearly loves getting a rise out of you and messing you around, so by asking him to have some compassion for the period issue, you've shown him your hand on that one, and it sounds like your DD will suffer if you continue to let him be in charge of you all.

It sounds like he's worn your confidence down so far you feel his views carry more weight than yours - you know your DD and IMO you should work on building up your confidence in your own parenting ability. You can't change his, but you can change your ability to stand up to him.

Also, he is not going to be reasonable so there's no point in hoping each time that maybe he'll be different - he won't be, so you need to lower your expectations of him. You can't make someone be a good parent, but it can be far less stressful when you co-parent based on the co-parent you've got rather than the one you wish you had.

I think you will need to practice it. Role play situations in your mind, imagine scenarios and then think about what a "grey rock" response will look like. Realistically it won't just happen, you will have to train yourself to respond differently.

I think that you are trying to protect your DC from the fact that their father is an arsehole. I'm not sure that you can to be honest. They will vote with their feet soon enough. In a few years if they refuse to go then that will be that. I cannot see how a could could compel a 14/15 year old to visit their father if they don't want to.

I hope you get well soon.

Bubblebu what a shit he is. I completely understand why you feel your trying to protect your kids from his behaviour.

Have you tried counselling?

Long - you are right.

His reaction on the period issue was that his new wife would handle it with my daughter. New wife is 12 years younger than him and whilst she is not mean to my kids, (kind of understandably) since she had her baby a year ago my kids often report that they feel like they are a bit of a pain for new wife when they stay on ex's weekends. So i'm not sure she would be up for the hand holding of my daughter during that transition. And I am her mum so I want to be there for her.

Yes it does feel like he wields a lot of control sometimes - his own parents had a very acrimonious divorce themselves and as soon as he moved out it was almost as if he knew exactly how to get what he wanted from me in the divorce process including exactly the times and terms on which he would see our kids.

My kids often ask me why it is not more of a fair discussion between me and ex about co parenting and I often wonder looking back on the divorce why indeed did I let it end up this way.

My ex and I went to family court not less than 5 times as part of the divorce process and the legal fees were the equivalent to the cost of a small terraced house. Divorce process in the UK is quite shocking!

I had an ex like this. Re the phone conversation, when he begins to raise his voice I would say firmly I'm ending this conversation and put the phone down. If he starts to be abusive I would immediately out the phone down without any warning.

You are no longer with him and do not have to listen to his shit. I wouldn't answer the phone again.

OP this really sounds rubbish (to say the least). I think you’ve got excellent advice from everyone above. I just wanted to emphasise what a PP said about ‘practicing’ grey rock. If you want to learn to ride a bike (say), you theoretically learn how it’s done but you have to get on the bike and give it a go. You will definitely wobble a bit and maybe even fall off. So you give it another go, and so on.

Don’t get cross with yourself for not getting it right the first few times! Just do your best and know that next time you’ll do it even better.

Incidentally, you don’t have to put up with someone shouting at you on the phone. If I called you and said horrible things, would you listen? Or would you put the phone down? It’s absolutely fine to say calmly, “I’m going to put the phone down now,” and do so.

for you.

Yes I have tried counselling. And it was very helpful. But somehow like you say I find myself reverting to this process of showing him my hand in all communications.

And I wonder if part of the reason is that my counsellor advised me that it really is not for the children to make decisions or do the communication that more rational and civil divorced parents seem to be able to do - so I feel guilty and then I shoot myself in the foot by having these email volleys with him.

Ah well - when he first left my kids were 4 and 5 and used to cry every Thursday night before his weekends with them - at least they don't do that now but they do say things like "I can't get to sleep at daddys" or "daddys weekends go so slowly, he just takes us to the supermarket and makes us do practice SATS tests". (and yes I did tell him that SATS tests have been cancelled this year - which they have at my kids school - and he called me a liar).

Cross-posted with bless, exactly! Don’t put up with that shit from anyone!

I agree. In fact if the DC are with you (and so you know there is no emergency) I just wouldn't answer the phone to him at all. In fact I'd be tempted to get a new phone with a new number and only switch the old phone on when he has the DC.

The rest of the time he can leave a message and you can get back to him, by email or text, when it suits you to do so. He is not in charge of you.

Also if it's of any consolation to you my DC now in their 20s realise that their father is shit and abusive. Eldest DD is completely nc with him and has been for several years. Youngest DD sees him a couple of times a year because she is mildly fond of younger children from his new marriage. DS isn't officially nc with him but I don't think has seen or spoken to his father for two if not three years.

Bless - thank you again. That is encouraging - sadly I think my kids will eventually be no contact with their Dad.

Can you believe that even tho it was in the child court order that he had to tell me for the first 3 years after he left he refused to tell me where he was living - and eventually he went total "caller number withheld" so we literally have no way to actively contact him should we need to - he does all the phoning of my landline to speak to the children.

And I only got his new address by asking the kids to tell me landmarks near his house in his new city and then going on rightmove sold houses and showing them estate agents photos which eventually they recognised the internal décor. This was after me begging and saying I only needed it in their was an emergency and I need to give his address to the police.

as I say above I do not have a car myself so (not that I would want to) it is not like I would ever turn up at his house myself anyway although he has also told me this is what I would do if he gave me his address.

The worry I went through on his weekends not knowing were my kids were was a nightmare.

OP that is really concerning. To be honest I'd change my number and refuse to give him it. Absolutely agree with @Sunshinegirl82 about having a spare phone purely for him that you can control when you switch it on. You don't need to speak..He can leave a message.

Why is he still able to dictate to you after having an affair and leaving? Don't argue over email. Don't answer anything abusive. Or if you want, paste it here and we'll answer for you. I'm excellent at withering remarks to dickheads.

Bless - thank you for your reply and your support.

Strangely I did change my mobile number a couple of years back for this exact reason but it also says in the child court order that he is entitled to speak to our kids Tuesdays and Thursdays and so I ended up telling him the new number.

I live in a village where the mobile reception is genuinely very unreliable so some nights he got through but on the nights there was no reception the kids and I used to walk down the road to try to find phone reception late into the night and if we failed to find phone reception he would send up to half a dozen emails to me ranting about me with holding his kids from him!

When we moved house I got a landline which is 100% reliable so that issue has gone away now but it was that kind of thing which was so horrible for the 3 of us at the time.

On a separate note I don't know how to turn off my landline - I have tried unplugging it once or twice but it still seems to ring. Weird.

When he does speak to the kids (I usually lock myself in the kitchen when he does so as not to overhead) on the rare occasion I have heard the conversation it is ALWAYS what did you do at school today? what mark did you get in your homework? why did you not get a A? and quite often he accuses my kids of lying to him (mainly I believe because he genuinely has very little idea about what goes on in their lives...…….

Bless - in answer to your question, I know (after 5 family court appearances so now I am an expert in divorce law...) that infidelity is totally ignored in all divorce settlements so the judges take the view that affairs should not be reflected in court order settlements whether in terms children (unless there is proven child abuse etc) nor in terms of financial settlements.

He does pay me child maintenance (via HMRC) but no spousal support even tho he earns 5 times my salary - I didn't get it right on that one either……..