Divorce - assets split concerns

[Free83]

I’m currently awaiting my Decree Nisi and am trying to sort the financial split with my S2BX. We’ve been married almost 10 years and have two children, aged 5 and 6. I used to work in a well-paid position in an Insurance firm, but gave up to look after our kids (they’re so close in age it made sense to stay home rather than put them in childcare). I’ve since worked in childcare, as a TA in my daughters’ school so I can be there to drop them to school and collect them every day. I have also started childminding this year, offering wraparound care for children at the school to earn a bit more. Unfortunately, because I’ve been childminding for less than 2yrs, no mortgage provider will take my earnings into account, so all I can evidence is £370pcm as a part-time TA. My contract at the school ends next month and they don’t have a position available to keep me on. My husband earns £102kpa, plus a discretionary bonus (in the 5yrs he’s been at the firm, it’s varied between £22k-£35k). His travel and lunch is paid for by the firm as a benefit in kind. We have £400k equity in the house and he has a pension of just under £300k. My pension is £60k. He is proposing that we split the equity in the house, giving me £250k and him £150k. He said he will pay £1k each month in child maintenance and give me £600pm in spousal maintenance. A 3 bed semi (we’re currently in 4 bed detached) in this area is £450k at a minimum, so I accept that we need to move, possibly much further away. This may mean the girls changing school and will certainly mean I can no longer keep my childminding clients. We have our next Mediation session in a couple of weeks to try to sort out the finances. Is what he is proposing correct? I don’t see how I will house, heat, feed and clothe the girls on this basis, but am soooo determined to not end up in a fight with him about money as it is absolutely key that we remain amicable for the girls’ best interests. Just need to prepare myself if his suggested division of assets is the likely outcome.

So you have combined assets of £760k and he will significantly out-earn you. He’s not offered you even 50% of the assets.

I’d be pushing for more equity from the house in return for forgoing the pension, assuming you have time to build up your own pension pot and that you can downsize to release equity from your house when you’re pension age. He can earn enough for a house deposit (and get a mortgage) fairly quickly, whereas you won’t be able to.

I assume your job means you’ll carry on doing all the childcare for your DC in the working week. This will make it hard to go back to a higher earning job as you’d be the one having to sort out (and pay) childcare, it then again it might be best to take that approach now if it means you get more equity from the house.

Go for lump sum clean break, 70% of the shared assets (£760k)

Any maintenance other than CMS can be stopped/varied a year after court and reviewed Eve year there after...

Thank you both for your your responses. Yes, the girls will live with me and he will have them every other weekend. We have agreed that if they have to move house, move schools, leave friends and family (we currently live in walking distance to both sets of grandparents), then the least we can do is give them the continued stability of me being there to drop them off and collect them each day, which obviously limits by employment opportunities hugely. I still have plenty of earning opportunity (I’m 36, he’s 46) but we’ve agreed that it’s best to be available to the girls until they leave primary school, at which point I should seek full time employment as they will be older and more independent. It seems husband is finding it hard to separate me from the basic needs of the children - he sees all discussions as funding me rather than providing for them. Will continue co-habiting until the house sells, so key we remain civil.

At the moment your u are getting a third of the assets

Their is amicable and then being a pushover. Get some legal advice

You need legal advice.

I am sure he is well aware that you are entitled to more than 50% of the combined asset as a starting point, usually more when you are the one hosting the DC most of the time, and usually more again when You are by far the lower earner.

Not arguing over finances will not keep you warm and fed especially when he stops paying maintenance as and when suits him.

With legal advice you can quote the solicitor "the minimum I should be getting is 50% of £760k so that is £320 plus my pension but because I want a clean break and only receive spousal for 12 months and I need to house the DC and I sacrificed my career to enable yours I actually should be getting up to 70%...

If you co-habited directly before marriage the you can add those years on to the length of marriage, certainly 10 years and 2 DC is not a particularly short marriage.

I cannot imagine anything worse than relying on him for spousal and extra Child maintenance knowing he could stop it at his whim and go back to court.

I think the above are correct in principle in that you should push for more but you can’t take pensions simply as equal to the house as it’s not £1 to £1 eg £1 in house equity available now is worth more than £1 pension. I’d use his higher pension value to try to get a higher share of the house so you only need a small mortgage. You also need to consider ways to increase your own earnings

Courts will try to look fir a clean break if there is deemed enough to achieve it

I would suggest a larger portion of the equity to provide suitable accommodation without need for mortgage in lieu of spousal maintenance.
What type of pensions do you both have? A 60k defined benefit pension could be worth the same amount as a £300k money purchase scheme especially as your 10 years younger.

Have you claimed tax credits / universal credit or done the calculations for when your job ends? Add that to CM which will be substantial on his earnings. Plus your earnings. Then see what mortgage you can get on that. I would try and stay in the area having grandparents on hand is a huge help. He is saving the cost of 50% childcare for the next 6 years while you are taking the financial hit of not being able to work a full time job. Don’t forget to add in the sale and purchase costs of downsizing eg stamp duty etc. I would think you will need most of £400k equity to house the children with a small mortgage. Mortgage companies will take benefits into account so your income would be higher than your TA wages for mortgage purposes. I also wouldn’t rule out getting a better paid job and putting the children in wraparound care or with grandparents etc there’s a lot to be said for the children staying put in same school with same friends and grandparents nearby. And it’s important support for you too. Owning in a high cost area also means even if it’s financially difficult short term you will end up with a valuable asset. It doesn’t sound like you want to move it sounds like he’s forcing the move by wanting so much equity.

This is why you need proper legal advice because it's not simple and straightforward.

The courts will want to see both of you housed and will see he can raise at least a £300k mortgage with a small amount of equity and to be far the Girls could share a bedroom when its only EOW meanwhile your ability to raise a mortgage currently seems nil so need as much equity as possible!

As the girls are the same sex, the court would consider it reasonable for them to share a room, so technically you only need a two bed house.

Technically yes a two bed but there is enough in the pot to render that unnecessary

That’s the key here and a clean break personally is what the courts would look for (no spousal) so get legal advice and take that to mediation

You don't specify what part of the equity was a result of the marriage.

That is the bit split 50/50

If you had more equity, could you stay in the dame area and school with a smaller house? I’d think it would be preferable for the children to stay in same schooling and living near grandparents.

Can anyone act as guarantor for your mortgage to help you until you have the childminding (or other job) income to get your own mortgage?

You seem to have accepted that you will have to move. Is there really no pockets of cheaper homes in the area, even if it’s a flat, to give your DDs some stability round schooling, near relatives etc?

Also some mortgage companies will accept maintenance as income, but it does have to be court stamped. My friends ex signed a declaration (witnessed by solicitor) that he would pay x amount in maintenance as their financial order paperwork hadn’t quite finalised. London and country are a good broker for finding mortgages for situations that aren’t straightforward - I’d give them a call and see what is possible.

Thank you all for your replies. I have seen a solicitor, who advised that I would probably be entitled to the equity in the house in lieu of making any claim on the pension. She said I would more than likely also be awarded spousal maintenance until the girls reach secondary school age. I don’t think my husband would be happy with forsaking all the equity - being able to put down a deposit on somewhere is very important to him. We are currently amicable and I’m very keen to keep it that way as I believe it will keep our daughters at the heart of everything we do. If we consider them first, we’ll give them the best chance at a happy family, albeit one that lives apart. I want to be reasonable and for my husband to have a nice property so when the girls visit every other weekend, it’s a nice place for all of them to be, but I also need to create a home for them myself. I’m caught between being really concerned with not leaving my husband in any way ‘done-to’, and needing to safeguard the girls’ and my future too. Not sure which side I should be focusing on more as keeping things friendly is so critical to me, so I really don’t want to annoy him, but I also need to think practically about the future. So confused!

Safeguarding your girls

Safeguarding your girls!

He is being amicable because at the moment it is all going his way...

I am sure he will have sought advice and knows full well what you would likely be entitled to but he is looking to safeguard "his" money. How long before he has a new female interest that he wants to impress?

Safeguarding your girls.

Seriously, you need to make sure you’re in a good position to look after your dds in the long term. Your ex has far higher earning potential than you.

The split he’s proposed isn’t fair. You end up with far less than 50% of the combined assets (in my view you should get more as you compromised your earning potential to have dc).

Your ex won’t be feeling ‘done to’ if he wants the girls to be ok. He’d know that being fair to you (since you gave up a good job) means you’d be in a better position to carry on being a good mum, is also best for them, so you have to question whether he’s actually putting them first.

Please don’t move the girls school. Do what you need to do to keep them in the only thing that’s stable for them at the moment. And for you to be able to work and keep same clients. I am sure that if you took the situation to court this is what the preferred outcome would surly be? I really would hope so.
I think you may need to initially resign to a 2 bedroom property if that’s what you can afford in the area.
I understand hugely how you want to keep it amicable. Why don’t you ask him how he foresees you being able to continue in same area for the girls sake and has he suggestions of the financial split that with allow this as you don’t Think his first proposal will allow that ‘for the girls’ as it stands. I’m similar situ right now. I am choosing my words carefully as I have no energy for a fight. I have a lawyer but am trying to keep it friendly - at this stage.

I will also have to leave a 4 bed possibly go to a 2 in order to keep kids at same school.
It’s tough. It does sound though that you are entitled to a fairer split. X

Surely putting the girls first and disrupting their lives as little as possible means keeping them in their schools and living near their grandparents???

Or is it only the part where you are making all the sacrifices that is important in not disrupting their lives ie you keeping a low earning no prospects job to be there for them.

How long would it take him to save a deposit if he earns so much?? A couple of years maybe?

Think very carefully. Read some other threads on here from women who say their ex was only interested in being amicable when it suited them and they were able to screw their wives and children over. He thinks it’s ok to give you less than half the assets knowing the differences in your earning potential. That is the only reason he is being amicable.

Have you had a look on rightmove to see what property you could get locally at the moment? Realistically you could go for a 2 bed and then girls could share... this would then give you a bit of starting block to say the girls need X amount to be housed. Look at the previously sold prices etc and then that can be used as evidence.

Can you imagine telling your STBXH that you’re busy at work so you can’t pick the girls, he’ll have to do it? That’s expected of you!
Can you imagine calling him and saying one of them is sick and staying home, he needs to come and fetch her and look after her for the day, or give your other daughter a lift to school?
Can you imagine telling your STBXH that you can’t have the girls in the summer for more than a week, because you have to work? That’s what he’ll expect of you.

At the moment is all amicable because you still live together and in your mind, you think surely he has the girls’ best interest at heart. He has not. I am telling you this, and there’s an army of women out there who will confirm this.
Get everything you can. Out of the house, don’t leave anything behind, not even the sink sponge. You will need it. Not because you’re spiteful, but trust me, you will need it. He’s going to treat you all as an option, not a priority.
Do not sign anything without your own solicitor. He will not be generous and understanding because, after all, they’re his girls.

Look after your girls’ welfare, he won’t.

So we had our second Mediation meeting, which was a complete waste of time. The Mediator spent the first hour tapping numbers into his spreadsheet on his laptop - the same numbers we gave him two months ago - to determine what we were trying to split. Then, he made no mention whatsoever of any assets other than the house equity (£400k) and worked on the basis of a split of £250k to me and £150k to STBX (as proposed my STBX).

A 3-bed semi here is min. £400k, so he will be able to afford a house here, but I won’t (can’t raise a mortgage). Mediator was a 46yr old white, high earning divorced male. STBX is a 46yr old white, high earning male in the process of a divorce. The claim of impartiality did not come across in the meeting.

I cried 4 times, the session cost £400 and we achieved precisely nothing.

After the meeting I tried to broach the subject of looking at alternate splits (taking into account pensions). He says he is not interested in pensions as he just wants capital now to house himself. I’ve said housing our girls is more important.

He says he will, reluctantly, push to £300k equity for me, £100k equity to him, but no spousal maintenance and no claim on his pension (worth quarter of a million). He earns more than £100,000. When I leave the house, I’ll have to stop childminding, but will try to extend my contract as a TA (£5,700 per annum). To my mind, he will end up very financially stable (his bonuses in the past 4 years have been £22k, £28k, £35k, £26k in addition to salary) while I don’t see how I can I’ll provide for the girls. He’s said that he will agree to me having the £300k, keeping my pension (£64k, plus my shares (£6k) and £5k cash, giving £375k - exactly 50%. He has told me he feels this is more than fair and equitable, and actually believes a court will question -and possibly decline it -because the capital share to me is ‘so inequitably generous’.

I will have 85% custody of our girls and sacrificed my career to raise them and look after our home, while simultaneously saving on childcare costs. He had massive earning capacity and I will be starting from scratch. Is there any risk he’s correct (am feeling unbelievably low right now) or should I have faith that all will end well?x

He may not be interested in a pension but if you send it to court they will be (and no court is going to sign off on this) if you are not

I have seen a solicitor, who advised that I would probably be entitled to the equity in the house in lieu of making any claim on the pension. She said I would more than likely also be awarded spousal maintenance until the girls reach secondary school age.

Your solicitor is entirely correct not only that the mediator sounds rubbish complain!

Get a solicitor and take it to court. This isnt amicable this is him running roughshod all over you. For your girls you have to start fighting

He is forcing it to court, so you may as well crack on.