Divorce - assets split concerns

[Free83]

I’m currently awaiting my Decree Nisi and am trying to sort the financial split with my S2BX. We’ve been married almost 10 years and have two children, aged 5 and 6. I used to work in a well-paid position in an Insurance firm, but gave up to look after our kids (they’re so close in age it made sense to stay home rather than put them in childcare). I’ve since worked in childcare, as a TA in my daughters’ school so I can be there to drop them to school and collect them every day. I have also started childminding this year, offering wraparound care for children at the school to earn a bit more. Unfortunately, because I’ve been childminding for less than 2yrs, no mortgage provider will take my earnings into account, so all I can evidence is £370pcm as a part-time TA. My contract at the school ends next month and they don’t have a position available to keep me on. My husband earns £102kpa, plus a discretionary bonus (in the 5yrs he’s been at the firm, it’s varied between £22k-£35k). His travel and lunch is paid for by the firm as a benefit in kind. We have £400k equity in the house and he has a pension of just under £300k. My pension is £60k. He is proposing that we split the equity in the house, giving me £250k and him £150k. He said he will pay £1k each month in child maintenance and give me £600pm in spousal maintenance. A 3 bed semi (we’re currently in 4 bed detached) in this area is £450k at a minimum, so I accept that we need to move, possibly much further away. This may mean the girls changing school and will certainly mean I can no longer keep my childminding clients. We have our next Mediation session in a couple of weeks to try to sort out the finances. Is what he is proposing correct? I don’t see how I will house, heat, feed and clothe the girls on this basis, but am soooo determined to not end up in a fight with him about money as it is absolutely key that we remain amicable for the girls’ best interests. Just need to prepare myself if his suggested division of assets is the likely outcome.

Please fight for what is rightfully yours. I didn't!

What is your counter offer?
75/25 in the house equity and 25/75 trade off on pensions which are 10 years off being liquid seems in your favour so presumably why the mediator felt it was workable. What is your preference?

I don't have anything to add in the way of suggestions for the split but I do echo @SeaSidePebbles advice. Get everything you can and while you're doing it think of how you are doing it for your girls.

Your STBEXH may be a wonderful co parent who wants to see you all right but sadly it's unlikely. Most men seem to be able to detach and see ex wives as grabby, totally forgetting that they actually need to provide for their children. These boards are filled with terrible tales. Just think of this, in a few years time when he has a new girlfriend or wife, who likely will be much younger and perhaps starting a family with him, will he be as interested in you and your girls? Or will he and his new family resent the dilution of assets available to them? It's nice to be amicable, you don't have to be nasty but you do have to be switched on right now. What you do now will influence the future of you and your daughters greatly. He has a high earning potential and can always recoup, you on the other hand cannot.

Get everything you can to ensure that your girls are ok, he would do the same if the shoe was on the other door.

What's your longer term plan on career? I know you don't want to but I think you would be wise to look at how you can get back to a higher earning job even if it involves using childcare (or help from grandparents?) faster. At the moment, you have only taken 6 years out from your previous career, it may be possible to get back to where you were, if you make it 10 years out, it may not be.

I would just state facts "I can't adequately house the DC on that, my earning potential is minimal whilst yours is huge plus you didn't include pensions and they are both assets, therefore I have to take it to court as I need £x now to house your DC"

Not sure which side I should be focusing on more as keeping things friendly is so critical to me, so I really don’t want to annoy him, but I also need to think practically about the future. So confused!

Do you think keeping it friendly will mean he is more generous to you? Or more fair?

It’s not worked out like that is it. And if it’s not like that now... what is it going to be like when he’s got a new GF and is fed up with spousal maintenance?

I split from my ex years ago, we weren’t married, but to keep it amicable I gave him 40% of the assets of house that was in my name only and we’d only lived there 2 years.

What a fool. He’s been awful ever since and I have had periods of struggling big time, as his maintenance is pitiful. Unfortunately it doesn’t work, being amicable as often the reason people split in the first place is someone is being selfish. That carries through into finances.

Also, if you are worried that this is a ‘one time offer deal’ and if you pursue it any further in court or with solicitors you will lose - then that is not correct.

Your own solicitor has already advised this.

He’s playing the classic hard sell where he is protecting himself and no one else. He’s certainly not protecting your children.

Honestly he’s looking forward to a life where he can get a younger GF and he knows it will drag him down having to give you more and he won’t be quite so attractive for a while. However with such a big salary he will soon be back on his feet.

Believe me it will be very painful to watch him with a small mortgage and a huge nice house with a new GF in a few years time while you are still struggling.

What comes out from this is that you want stability for the children and he wants stability for himself. Stability for the children is you, the same house, the same school, the same closeness to family, you with the same client's. What he proposes takes all this away, stops your own earned income and leaves you dependent on his whims. What happens if he remarries? Losses his job?

His being amicable involves you and the children making sacrifices while makes none.

Spousal maintenance is a nightmare, you are reliant on him paying it each month, could be late could reduce it, you would have to go back to court. Each year he can get it reassessed. He could take early retirement, move abroad.

Clean break with higher equity divide so you can house the DC now the way.

He is only being amicable because he is "winning"

OP It’s a shitty process and great that you are both keeping things civil as far as you can. Your solicitor gave good advice, seems like the mediator was a waste of space and I wouldn’t go back there.

Have you read/directed your STBX to the MCA section 25? This is what is relied on to give an equitable split, and clearly states what is important in the decision making process - with the needs of any children in the marriage being paramount.

Also, if you were to go to court you’d both need to fill in a Form E. Included in this is reasonable needs. How about you both do this - first how much you both need for a house (get examples),, then how much to live, including child costs for the resident parent. Then compare to income.

The starting point in any split is 50/50 and revised from there. From what you have said your split should be higher, not lower.

My experience of mediation is similarly bad- waste of time and money. They just document things not actually help you reach a fair deal. Talk to your solicitor about whether its worth trying or just drop it and submit it to court to decide. You can do this without solicitor.

A drop in living standards is inevitable for both of you, but it should not be disproportionate to one person - which he is pushing for.

You need to identify what you 'need' to house yourself and kids where they need to be. Ie go to a broker and get a value of mortgage you can raise- even if its Zero- that is important . Then print off rightmove fir sale and sold prices of 2 & 3 bdr places in reasonable distance to school.

Its important to note that housing yourselves doesn't mean a purchase- it may be suggested one or both of you rent for a while or buy shared ownership. But in your situation i think its reasonable you get enough equity to buy. Him.. probably could rent short term, but he is not going to accept that from you along those lines so don't say anything to him.

You can offset taking greater equity in exchange for taking less pension as your solicitor suggested.

The court will expect you to get a job and not rely on maintenance, just be aware.

OP - Be careful he doesn't decide to go self employed which gives him the opportunity to drastically reduce his income on which the CMS base their calculation. If I were you STBXH I would have this in my back pocket.

Also be aware of is the potential for him to salary sacrifice in future years. Again this is a great way to reduce his earnings on paper by moving money into his pension directly from his wages.

Hate to say it but there's so many loopholes available to high earners who don't want to pay maintenance for years on end.

Your own situation is unique but consider the merits of getting a lump sum upfront. That way you have guaranteed physical cash as opposed to relying on him to pay. You can never guarantee that your ex partner will pay, situations change as do circumstances and peoples attitude. Most ex husbands change their stance when a new partner comes along. No new woman wants to have the financial noose of an ex wife around their neck!

Also consider the potential for him to move overseas, to a country that has no reciprocal agreement with the UK in respect of enforcing child maintenance.

It's so easy to avoid paying.

It’s highly likely you’ll be expected to seek full time employment

Push for higher share of house offsetting his pension if necessary and look to increase your earnings

Thank you all so, so much.

I am feeling reassured that you all seem to agree that the girls and I will not be left struggling. I don’t want him to struggle either, but they matter more than he does and that’s what it comes down to.

My ideal would be that I get the equity and he keeps his pension. Clean break - no spousal maintenance- as equity is more than the pension. I could stay in the village (not our current home tho - it’s too big for our needs and costs more to run than I can justify. But by staying local, the girls’ lives are undisrupted. I can seek a full time, better paid job, knowing that family and friends are around to help with childcare, so the girls have an ongoing support network, as do I. But this is not an option for STBX as this leaves him with no capital to buy his own place - houses are pricey here, but with house equity and a full time job, I could get a mortgage.

Next option would be: Move to an area where house prices are lower, so I could potentially buy a property with a lower proportion of the equity (I.e. £300k/75%). I would need a small mortgage but I would not be able to get one as I would not have a job, so would need help from STBX. He has advised that if I take any more than the £250k he originally wanted me to have, he won’t consider Spousal Maintenance at all, so that would leave me with the £1,200pcm Child Maintenance to pay mortgage, utilities, car, food, school lunches, etc. We would have no support network at all and the girls would be completely uprooted, so I refuse to put them into childcare in addition to al the upheaval (they need at least one stable thing - me collecting them from school), which would limit my earning capacity when I did find a job. A couple of years down the line, when they’re more settled, I could work more hours when the girls have settled and feel comfortable with their new communities. But financially, I couldn’t provide for them on this proposal.

He is closed off to discussing any alternatives as he feels that I am just out to get him. He has told me that if he continues feeling under pressure and stressed by this process, he won’t be able to work and then we’ll all starve. I can see how his mind is working and what he could be plotting :-(. But I just said that that’s even more reason for the girls and I to have a bigger share of the capital - to ideally buy outright - so that we’re not dependent on him and they will always be guaranteed a roof over their heads.

I would rather just say, “Look, we’re not going to agree and neither of us are experts, so let’s hand it over to the professionals. That way, whatever the law says the outcome should be, we need to accept it and not blame the other person - the law is the law.” I guess that means going through the courts, which is a route I never thought we’d have to go down. 🥺

You have to go down the court route and start now I think tell him that they are the people who will make sure it’s fair

And your position should be a clean break with no maintenance and no claim on his pension

And full equity

Once money is involved rationality leaves the room. Tbh it isn't what he wants here it's what's fair

OP your argument is sound. Paramount is the DC and their welfare. However your STBX also needs to be able to house himself. I agree that clean break is best if possible as like others have said, maintenance can be changed and shouldn’t be relied upon.

He should no that what he is saying about stress, not being able to work etc, is something a lot of higher earners say, and is pretty well ignored in court. Court should be the last choice ideally. Has he seen a solicitor himself? Mediators are not allowed to advise, perhaps research arbitration and other ways to sort this?

All this mention of his stress is manipulation tactics, being all nice and amicable is he?

He doesn’t need a house he can manage with a 2 bed flat. He can move to a cheaper area as he doesn’t need to be near school. 60-70% total assets is not unrealistic given his earning power and your sacrifices. Spousal could be paid short term especially if for eg you retrained eg as a teacher to get a better paid job in future. What you’ve said about staying in same area etc sounds very reasonable and will to a court as well. Trust your instincts. It’s not up to him to refuse spousal or equity ultimately he can be made to pay it if it’s needed to reach a fair outcome

He is closed off to discussing any alternatives as he feels that I am just out to get him. He has told me that if he continues feeling under pressure and stressed by this process, he won’t be able to work and then we’ll all starve.

These are his true colours. It was worth pushing for a fairer deal as then you can more clearly see his mind set. Which is all about him and his needs - did he at all mention how hard it might be for the girls to struggle with you having to pay for wrap around care or big mortgage finding work in school hours?

No. He’s not thinking of them. He’s evading his responsibility as a father but expecting you to take the vast majority of it!

Evidence about what is the optimum set up for a child’s well being after separation is not conclusive in a number of areas, however financial security is really up there saying it makes one of the biggest differences to children’s mental wellbeing post divorce. This comes up again and again.

OP you do really need to plan for and prepare to work to support yourself sooner rather than later. Irrespective of the outcome of a financial order, a court will expect you to have a job and not rely on maintenance. And the argument about waiting a few years if you have to move further away is unlikely to be endorsed.

also, for your own financial security you need to be able to live without depending on any maintenance, as anything can happen to his earning capacity, legit or otherwise, which could see you receiving peanuts at short notice. That would be far more disruptive to have to make another change to your lives because you have no job and no income for day to day life.