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Divorce/separation

Here you'll find divorce help and support from other Mners. For legal advice, you may find Advice Now guides useful.

Original poster

Am I being too greedy (EXDH says I am). Need objective opinion.

146 replies

numbbrain · 29/08/2018 14:45

We are about to be divorced and I have made him an offer which he has declined and says is too greedy.

I would really appreciate any objective facts either from professional opinion or cases you know of.

23 years married - both 53
DH - slary £85K + 40k bonus yearly.
Pension CETV 640k
Bought new house with 220k mortgage

Me - earn about 8k part time work.
Left good job to look after children
Diagnosed later with complex PTSD
Pension CETV 24k
Living in home with 298k equity and 73k mortgage outstanding

3 children live with me when not at university.

He has offered for me to have the equity in the house and pension of 170k. His solicitor says that the trade off for capital and pension is 25%.

I am looking for equity, plus 300k pension.

Am I being greedy.

TIA

OP posts:
crimsonlake · 29/08/2018 15:46

It all depends on ' needs '
How much do you need going forward? You will also be expected to maximise your income, which may or may not be possible? Will you have to downsize and purchase a new house, preferably outright? How much will you need to be able to do this? You need to find some examples of properties and prices to back this up. Also you may have to come to terms that you may not be able to purchase in your desired area. Many of us have had to do this.
They may argue that your grown up children no longer need a home with you, you have to stick to your guns on this one.

Dogdays123 · 29/08/2018 17:38

Doesn't look very fair to me. Both future earning powers will all be taken into account. Sacrifice of career etc. With money like that at stake you really need your own good solicitor. You can get an order to have hime pay legal costs.

Original poster
numbbrain · 29/08/2018 19:38

Thankyou

I have a solicitor advising me but our 2 solicitors are fields apart and we don;t really want to line their pockets.

But at the same time, I want to get what I'm entitled to as he has such earning potential and the opportunity to build up his pension again.

Which bit didn;t you think was fair Dogdays123?

OP posts:
waterSpider · 29/08/2018 19:48

I think I'd start talking about 'spousal maintenance' - partly as a strategy to encourage him to be more generous elsewhere, as SM is rare (but not that unusual for a £100k+ earnings level with one sacrificing their own career).

Are there really no savings or other assets involved? e.g. when he bought a new house?? I'd expect savings/ISAs with income at his level.

The 25% conversion of pension to capital is an older idea, linked to the idea that 25% can be taken as a lump sum (I think that may have been the logic). But with 'pensions freedom' a higher percentage would be more appropriate because you can take more of the money as cash, at age 55, not too far away. (albeit subject to tax if you take a lot).

Original poster
numbbrain · 29/08/2018 19:53

Waterspider

Thankyou
Yes there are others but I didn;t want to overwhelm people.

There is a 50k endowment which was supposed to pay off part of the fMH mortgage which he used as a deposit on his house. There is also 23k of ISAs/savings.

I will aslo be asking for spousal maintenance of £1100/month to keep house for children and to pay mortgage

OP posts:
crimsonlake · 29/08/2018 19:58

Whatever you do do not go for SM, go for a lump sum. Yes, SM is rarer but I achieved it, sacrifice of career etc. However it is a ball and chain around your neck and you will never be free of him. As I said previously work out your needs. If you haven't already fill in a Form E, infact you should have done so already if your solicitors are doing their jobs. Go to the government funded Wikivorce website and post there , you can get advice from professionals if there are any around and others who are going through what you are. Helped me enormously.

crimsonlake · 29/08/2018 20:10

He has already spent the 50K endowment? You have an ISA? I hope it is in both names and he cannot cash that in as well. My ex did exactly the same thing, used our savings to purchase a new house before any financial settlement had been reached, then managed to cash in my 16k ISA. Unfortunately at our Final Hearing the judge said ' it is with regret I would not get any of it back as there was nothing left! ' Partly because of this I received SM for joint lives, in a few years he applied for a variation and termination, eventually I managed to get SM capitalised to be rid of him. Try and freeze all assets now before he spends it all.

CaMePlaitPas · 29/08/2018 20:14

Rich people problems Grin - good luck OP, you get him good!

43percentburnt · 29/08/2018 20:20

Pay for a good solicitor. You have assets over 1 million and you need good advice.

Of course he doesn’t want to line the pockets of a lawyer. He wants to line his own! I can assure you he will have paid a decent price for legal advice. Anyone who uses the word ‘greedy’ ‘gold digger’ or money grabber is always referring to their own desire to keep as much of the marital assets as possible.

Is his offer even 50% of everything? Including the endowment and Isa’s etc? Three adult kids suggests a long marriage.

Get a shit hot lawyer. The court won’t let you be greedy, you’ll just get your fair share.

Original poster
numbbrain · 29/08/2018 21:13

We both have solicitors, but as I don;t have spare cash and can;t really afford to pay my solicitor, I'm forced to look at ways of avoiding contacting her.

I'd rather agree a settlement but at the same time don;t want to be fleeced. I want to know what a judge would say without having to pay for one!!

OP posts:
Walkingdeadfangirl · 29/08/2018 21:55

The children are irrelevant as they are now over 18. How long were you a SAHP?

I think you getting the house, a lump sum to pay off the mortgage (or at least 50k of it) and some of the pension would be a fair split. In 5 years time you can downsize and will get around half a million from sale of the house.

wobytide · 29/08/2018 22:56

Referring to adult kids as children and being a part time worker isn't a good combination

Iizzyb · 29/08/2018 23:20

You need proper legal advice. He will be getting it. With assets like this your solicitor should also be advising on ways of funding the legal advice.

If they are not then I would suggest you look at different solicitors.

I'm a solicitor but not family law. I know my colleagues would cover this in their advice simply because you stand to gain the funds to pay once the final arrangements are agreed.

Your solicitor should also be advising you on realistic prospects and what you might be awarded in court therefore what is a good settlement. Thanks

Iizzyb · 29/08/2018 23:21

Also just on the issue of what's reasonable it's not our opinion you need - you need to know what you would be likely to be awarded x

Holidayshopping · 29/08/2018 23:28

You have three kids over 18 but only earn £8k? I’d be getting myself financially independent, I think.

What does your solicitor say you’re entitled to?

pennycarbonara · 29/08/2018 23:34

Does the PTSD stem from abuse in the marriage?

greenlanes · 29/08/2018 23:37

Having been through a divorce with decent £ of assets involved, I would totally second in your situation getting as much lump sum and clean break as possible. My ex was able to vary a significant SM financial order on very spurious grounds only a couple of years after it was awarded. I seriously believe I was given very poor legal advice as clean break was not really mooted at the original time. And they will always try to come back to a very sick family court to vary these orders.

OctaviaOctober · 30/08/2018 00:24

We both have solicitors, but as I don;t have spare cash and can;t really afford to pay my solicitor, I'm forced to look at ways of avoiding contacting her.

You will have money when it's all over. And likely to have more if you have decent legal support all the way through. Do a lot of your own reading on wikivorce, but your lawyer should be advising you on what you should be going for.

OctaviaOctober · 30/08/2018 00:24

You have three kids over 18 but only earn £8k? I’d be getting myself financially independent, I think.

She has PTSD, it might not be possible.

Smallhorse · 30/08/2018 00:39

Yes I think you are being greedy

MissedTheBoatAgain · 30/08/2018 02:43

To OP

Think you should be aware that your Husband has needs too. ie he needs somewhere to live and be able to cover his living costs. At age 53 he may have difficulty on obtaining a mortgage?

Spousal Maintenance, if considered applicable by the Courts, will be based solely on your needs and the ability of your husband to be able to afford it after he has paid for his own needs. Courts would not make an Order that plunges one partner into hardship so that the other could continue with same lifestyle as though there had been no divorce. Very often that both parties will experience a reduction in lifestyle until time passes and they become independent.

If you have been offered full equity from the house I would say that reduces your chances of Spousal Maintenance. Reason for my opinion is that Judge told my ex wife she could not have full equity and Spousal Maintenance as same time as I too needed to have a home and be able to support myself.

As for pensions it may be the same argument that if you receive full equity what is left for husband to live on in the future? Reason for that comment is that when my uncle divorced after 27 years, wife got house and he kept his pension.

If the 3 children are University age what prevents you from working full time and hence earn more than 8k? Refer to the Lord Pritchford "get a job ruling" made in Feb 2015. Ex wife was told to get a job as unreasonable to expect to live off her ex husband forever.

I am sure there is a lot more to your circumstances than you have posted here. So only way to get a better understanding is to speak to a Family Solicitor.

MissedTheBoatAgain · 30/08/2018 02:45

You will have money when it's all over. And likely to have more if you have decent legal support all the way through

This makes the assumption that Legal costs are less than the additional benefit gained.

MooseBeTimeForSummer · 30/08/2018 02:54

I’d also say that as they’re all over 18 the Court will not attach much weight to needs for the children

MissedTheBoatAgain · 30/08/2018 02:55

To OP

If children are University age then they must be over 18? If so courts may disregard them as they are adults. Courts will decide on yours and your husbands needs, not those of other adults even if they are your children..

Reason for saying this is that my ex wife tried to argue she needed a 3 bedroom house for herself, son and daughter. Judge recognized the son's need as aged 10 at the time. However, the daughter (or to be more accurate my stepdaughter) was 22 and considered to be irrelevant.

MissedTheBoatAgain · 30/08/2018 03:00

I want to know what a judge would say without having to pay for one!!

That's a very unrealistic expectation. Judge at FDR in my divorce made a completely ridiculous recommendation after 3 meetings of maybe 5 minutes maximum each. Outcome at the Final Hearing was massively different (and much more in my favour I might add)