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Divorce/separation

Here you'll find divorce help and support from other Mners. For legal advice, you may find Advice Now guides useful.

Original poster

I am just a chattel

162 replies

ginnyweeze · 28/03/2018 00:50

The advice I am getting from divorce lawyers is making me feel like little more than a chattel. Whatever I have earned is irrelevant, the reasons for the divorce are irrelevant. Everything is split 50:50 with my ex - even if I earned more like 70:30 of it. This is because once married everything is a joint possession and there is no way you can keep your own earnings for yourself.

Surely I cannot be the only woman in Britain who is the main but not sole breadwinner and who is divorcing her husband for unreasonable behaviour?

The children only want to live with me, we need the house yet apparently the “need” of my husband for a home is paramount. I’m told a one bedroom flat would not be good enough for him - yet why would one man who will not have his kids to stay need more?

I don’t think I’m misunderstanding the situation. My life is maybe ahead of the curve but there are many more in my situation. In 15-20 years there will be some sort of “truth and reconciliation” commission looking at this and making compensation.

I am being preyed on by a parasite. Am I the only one angry about this?

OP posts:
Lostlily · 28/03/2018 09:01

Ginnyweeze
I am exactly in your situation.
I am soon to be divorced and I was the main but not sole earner. I saved monthly and had a good pension which I paid into straight from my wages.
He never saved, never bothered with a pension despite me always telling him to...
now I am divorcing him as he has been flaunting himself on OLD sites and al sorts of horrible humiliating behaviours for at least the last three years. He is entitled to half of everything I have!
It’s totally sucks.
I also had my own property to start with while he lived with parents.
The best I can hope for I’m told is that I protect my pension, but he will get 50% of everything else

Original poster
ginnyweeze · 28/03/2018 09:01

HumanMothBoy there were indicators that not everything was love’s young dream but I didn’t just get bored. Something happened that showed me what an utter shit he is. Nevertheless, that is apparently irrelevant.

OP posts:
PaulDacreRimsGeese · 28/03/2018 09:01

Have you spent any of the marriage in any US state? Do you live in one now?

Original poster
ginnyweeze · 28/03/2018 09:05

No. But might it be worth me moving to US though if necessary? Russian wives move to the UK to get better divorce. (SAHM obvs)

Lostlily - we are in the same boat. Lawyers are like robots simply processing an unjust law. They don’t seem to have the intelligence to see that.

OP posts:
iamthrough · 28/03/2018 09:06

@ginnyweeze I can hear your pain coming from you like waves. You must have been through a lot to get to this point. In some ways I agree with you - when you decide you want to get out - marriage can seem like a trap, designed to keep you there against your wishes. However like others have said the advice you've been given is correct the family finances are divided regardless of who put the money there - male or female makes no difference.

Perhaps going forward more people will have pre-nup agreements before they get married?? trouble is no one thinks this will happen to them..... until it does.

Sending you hugs @ginny but I think this is one battle you are bound to loose - try to let it go for your own sake.

Fineline2018 · 28/03/2018 09:08

I think divorcing sooner rather than later would be better for you. My exh was entitled to half the savings and pension I accumulated during our separation which was several years, whilst paying no maintenance at all for the children.

PaulDacreRimsGeese · 28/03/2018 09:08

The Russian wives divorcing in the UK have generally been living here already. You have to have some kind of connection with the place. This might be useful.

www.alternativefamilylaw.co.uk/international/brussels-ii/

ginnyweeze · 28/03/2018 09:12

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

larrygrylls · 28/03/2018 09:18

MrsBert,

'Larry, you know very little about English divorce law. Stop pretending you do.'

Then how about you address the actual points that I have made, with reference to helping the OP, rather than passive aggressively sniping?

notanurse2017 · 28/03/2018 09:19

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
ginnyweeze · 28/03/2018 09:20

No offence intended. And obviously this entire situation is not causing me any offence or pain in any way.

OP posts:
shallichangemyname · 28/03/2018 09:22

MrsBB is right. You pay a lawyer to advise you. Listen to their advice. Yes you can query it so you understand why it has been given, but don't rail repeatedly against it, you will be charged for it. It's not immoral. If you spend 5 hours challenging the advice you'll be charged for those 5 hours. If you question everything you're told, you'll be charged for it being repeatedly explained to you. The worst client I ever had used to try various tactics to disagree with me or not to listen. She would cover up her ears and go "lalalala" like a toddler; she would try and bet me £100 I was wrong; she would just say flat out no you're wrong; she would laugh hysterically (mind you she was I think mentally unwell and I did try to persuade her to get a psychiatric report to help her case)
You can't stop a divorce. You can defend but he will get a divorce in the end if he can prove that, subjectively, he found aspects of your behaviour unreasonable (or he can wait 5 years but that's unlikely) and really I always advise clients that defending a divorce is like flushing £50 notes down the loo. The court has the power to make a financial order in your absence if you refuse to participate. And that includes your pension.
You can't forum shop and go to a jurisdiction with which you have no connection just to get a better deal. All of these "tactics" will see you paying your own (vastly increased) legal costs and probably his too.
Hard as it is, you need to listen to the advice and accept the reality.
There is no magic formula that applies to all cases. Each case turns on its own facts. There are various principles and factors that are applied in the context of the particular facts. Every case is different.
Marital conduct would justify a departure from 50:50 in a long marriage but is very rare and there's nothing to suggest from your posts that this applies in your case.
I agree with PPs that you are in the same position as many men. The law on division of marital assets disregards gender. You stayed with him so you have to accept that whilst he may be a shitbag and a scrounger, you can't turn back the clock. Although of course you can wish you had.

TheHumanMothboy · 28/03/2018 09:26

I take offence at a number of the OP's posts, but we have to accept that this is a person that feels utterly betrayed, and they are in a period of intense emotion and upheaval and uncertainty.
OP, I hope things improve for you soon.
Please do listen to what solicitors are telling you is achievable- it will save a lot of heartache, time and money in the long run.

shallichangemyname · 28/03/2018 09:27

"Lawyers are like robots simply processing an unjust law"
No Ginny. Lawyers are advising you what the law says and how it applies to you. Whether or not the law is injust, it applies equally to you as it does to everybody else. That doesn't make us robots or rip off merchants.

PaulDacreRimsGeese · 28/03/2018 09:31

Yeah, you're not going to help yourself railing and refusing to listen. By all means get a second opinion, that's never a bad idea, but if they're all saying the same thing then you'd be a fool not to listen to it. Whether you think the situation is fair has nothing to do with what your most sensible course of action is.

Original poster
ginnyweeze · 28/03/2018 09:32

Law is dependent on case history though. If nobody every fought it then nothing would change. Go and relax in you £250/hour mansions.

OP posts:
Fenellapitstop · 28/03/2018 09:37

Ginny, I can understand completely where you're coming from as I'm in the same boat. The advice you're being given is correct unfortunately and all that's going to happen is it will cost you money if you fight it. It feels terribly unfair to be in this position but it's where we are

Original poster
ginnyweeze · 28/03/2018 09:37

What a joke I am. Stupid little woman going out to work to pay for her kids and thinking she was getting the same as a man. Now I’ll lose my life savings. Never mind...plenty more where that came from NOT.

OP posts:
redhalia · 28/03/2018 09:43

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheHumanMothboy · 28/03/2018 09:43

It has nothing to do with what sex you are. There are many men that feel they get screwed over in divorce too.

espoleta · 28/03/2018 09:46

I think you need to get a grip on reality.
You entered into a contract (because really that what marriage is).
Now you are choosing to break the contract and are paying the penalties.

I'm divorced and with a new partner, bought a house, have a dog and baby and have chosen not to get married based on the terms of the marriage contract. I also know what exposure not being in a contact means (and yes, I'm exposed in certain ways not in others because of my choice.)

I think if this was reserved you would get a flaming on mumsnet.

Also your comments about autistic people are shocking and show a level of insensitivity and of being completely unselfaware that I dare say there are two sides to every story.

Listen to the lawyers, or don't. But there are laws to protect the lower income earners many of whom put their jobs on hold for their kids and the reality is no law is perfect. If we're discussing the law I believe the conversation should be overall does it do good or bad?

Original poster
ginnyweeze · 28/03/2018 09:47

If lawyers are on here then what are their motives in giving free advice? Trying to drum up business? It costs me nothing to vent on here.

I have worked for my kids. I will still provide for them. If I could give everything to my kids then I would. Uni fees? Who’s paying the next tranche of living costs. Me. I was saving for them. Family money. Yes, for them, not for a good-for-nothing abuser.

OP posts:
RoseAndRose · 28/03/2018 09:48

"What a joke I am. Stupid little woman going out to work to pay for her kids and thinking she was getting the same as a man."

Well, you are getting the same as a man, because what you describe is what tends to happen in divorce irrespective of the sex of the higher earner.

Original poster
ginnyweeze · 28/03/2018 09:48

I am choosing to get divorced because how else do I protect my kids? I will never have a partner again.

OP posts:
shallichangemyname · 28/03/2018 09:50

Ginny stop it! I don't live in a £250 per hour mansion. I was in fact much like you. The main earner in my marriage and the one who kept it all together. My XH wasn't a feckless twat and was/is a good father. But he lost a great deal of marital money by being stupid. I am a single mother to 4 DCs. I then got involved in a financially, mentally and physically abusive relationship (see my thread) as a result of which I lost a great deal of money and all my dignity and almost myself. And I am in enormous debt trying to keep everything going. So no, I won't go back to my "mansion" rather than try to help you see the wood for the trees and to accept the reality.

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