Anyone else feel that being a dad and sole breadwinner is a lousy deal?

[SpareWheel]

DW and I are SITCOMs (single income, two children, oppressive mortgage). I work crazy hours and race back work half-done to see the kids a little bit before bedtime then try to finish off work and fall into bed. At the risk of sounding like a whinger, I feel like I'm becoming a crap employee, crap husband and a crap father all in one - surely I'm not the only one...

I've been working part time for about 18 months, having spent the best part of 12 years at home with dh as sole breadwinner.

It did place a huge amount of pressure on him, but he felt that the benefits to the children outweighed the disadvantages.

I'm sad that the op feels that he's crap - I bet he's not. Sounds like a lovely bloke to me

Ditto Unquiet Dad - well said that man.

Chin up SpareWheel - if you're the full-time earner then you take a bit of flak now, but so much to the benefit of your kids because your DW can devote her time to bringing them up well and make sure they're not like the horrible brats who swear, hit each other and destroy the cherry-tree behind our house. Plus, if you don't like your job you can change - she can't really change kids can she?

My DW is a SAHM and there's NO way I'd want her to go back to work, earn an extra £12-14k per year and have our DKs brought up by a stranger. DW is taking a hit in terms of her career too, so we're both making sacrifices, but that's what parenting is all about . You KNOW it wouldn't be half as much fun if it were easy.

I like the quote from Grandma in the film Parenthood: You know, when I was nineteen, Grandpa took me on a roller coaster. Up, down, up, down. Oh, what a ride! I always wanted to go again. You know, it was just so interesting to me that a ride could make me so frightened, so scared, so sick, so excited, and so thrilled all together! Some didn't like it. They went on the merry-go-round. That just goes around. Nothing. I like the roller coaster. You get more out of it.

DH has just said and I quote here men go out to work to earn the money and women stay at home looking after the children

anyhow that aside, i've just asked DH if he'd stay at home and I went back to work (he said no)

totally agree with UD - althou DH and I have always said, i'll stop at home until our youngest is of school age, then i'll work p/t around the school day/in school if poissible to still be there. my aunty is a SAHM her two are 10/7, and what she does all day - i'll tell u - spends money on a credit card she can't afford, 'lunches' with friends and then asks the family for food money. obv not all mums are like this but I personally hate 'living on' DH and would love to work myself, but for not it's not feisable for me.

we're lucky that DH's current job means he's home for an hour at lunch and normally home bu 4.30 for the day (also two half days) so he gets a lot of time at home - on the flip thou when he's away it's for a week at a time if not more.

UD, I take your point but I feel you're exaggerating. The objection is to men who don't do any parenting at the weekend on the basis that 'they work' during the week - and you're often on those threads agreeing that said blokes are being out of order. And the assumption that SAHMs are all Waitrose-haunting gym-bunnies is out of order too.

Norfolkinhope, my childminder is not 'a stranger'.

Me, I work four days a week, by the way. My partner works five. He now earns quite a lot more than I do, but for a number of years I was the bigger earner.

like "Waitrose haunting gym-bunnies". Yes, iIwas exaggerating a little for effect. I often do. It sometimes does come down to this, though - failure to recognise that their DH giving up hours will mean giving up a bit of the lifestyle. I do know women who want it both ways.

btw, my post from Sat should read "DW and I both WORK", present tense.

Wow - this thread us still going!! Excellent

is not us - durrrrr

But Unquietdad if you're a sahm with preschool children you don't get a break at all during the day and are often up at night too. If a dh of one of these women wants to unwind playing golf at weekends, fine - as long as she gets to go to the gym/a gallery/read a book by herself on the other weekend day.

But hang on...! they'd never have any family time then. That's why many of these women want their dhs to spend time AT HOME at the weekends. Even if the children are tiring, at least they're all in it together and each has a bit of adult company.

Btw I do take your point to an extent; a former close friend who's like me a sahm used to insist her dh came home "to help get xxx to bed" if they were going out together for the evening...so the poor guy would trot home to the suburbs to read their toddler a bedtime story, then off they'd go to a restaurant or whatever, often near his central london place of work...bonkers.

Why doesn't your wife work? I think there's amoral duty to work and it's better for families, the country, other women and your children. Get her back to work ASAP.

Also with your set up if you ever divorced you'd lose the children and house and most of the money just because you tolerate that current inequity in how you manage your life and earnings. It's a massive risk for you. Get her back to work whilst the marriage is still going well.

Xenia - Why is it better for the kids (assuming they pre-school) if the mother works? kids want their mother or father to look after them not a nanny or nursery.

Is what children want always best for them? I don't think that's a very good test. They want ice cream for breakfast dinner and tea. They want to do what they want. They want to walk into roads.

In families where both parents work the parents tend to get on better, ther eis more money (which has huge benefits for the family as a whole) a more equal balance of power and domestic tasks done between husband and wife and many parents find it easier to work than look after under 5s anyway. No studies have shown children of working mothers or fathers do worse in life or are damaged so it's a psychologiclaly neutral issue too - just win win for those of us who have always worked and our children.

manuka - actually in hindsight ds1 would have preferred nursery from about the age of 1 - he was wildly sociable and I didn't really know many other parents..

But Xenia, anecdotally and perhaps more reliably than that, there is evidence that woh mothers just do it all rather than have it all; their husbands usually don't share domestic drudgery/ childcare in an equitable way.

If, financially, it's marginal for (usually) the mother to work, where's the family wide benefit in that ?

I feel your pain, SW.

Except we're not doing this for a mortgage.

Instead we have to do this just to live.

Sorry, but I don't have much sympathy for folks with an 'oppressive mortgage'.

Because that's a choice.

It truly is.

And no, I don't expect you to understand that.

In fact, I hope you never come to understand that the way I and millions of other low-wage earners do.

Count your blessings.

And if you can't anymore, then it's time for you to examine where you can make some changes.

You only live once.

Spare wheel stop feckin whining, get a less oppressive mortgage, why struggle.

We have a mortgage, i am a sahm, DP is in a minimum wage job working his ass off, sometimes you have to make choices.

Its not all about money, we are skint but happy, DS wants for nothing.

Sparewheel, I felt like that when I was the breadwinner, working full time. It's nothing to do with gender. But it does make you miserable. And if you are miserable, do something about it! Honestly, I thought I was stuck, had 1001 reasons to keep doing what I was doing, terrified of not being able to pay the bills. But someone talked some sense into me and I decided to at least try stepping off the treadmill for a while. Big risk but it worked for me - dh had to pull his socks up and start earning more (which was good for him too as he was coasting). I think you need to share the financial burden with your dw (and quid pro quo, you will have to do a fair share of childcare, housework and family admin).

I had a great paying city job until octboer, i earned more than my dh until he got a huge payrise doubling his salary.

i had a miscarriage. life changed, i and we re-evaluated the important things.......our children not our bank balance.

worked out that after paying for childcare, train fair 'xyz' that come with working in the city that we werent going to be a huge amount worse off.

i still work, but a totally new career, one that fits in around the boys (preschool times for my client appts and evenings when dh is in). i dont earn 1/2 as much, but everyone is alot happier.

i do most things around the house, he will still help out - he does live here too!

its not all about the money. we also have a hugeee mortgage and we are renovating, but we manage and still have some luxuries, and ive found i dont spend hardly any money on the 'guilt' treats like i used to (i havent seen boys all week, ill buy a toy/book/sweets etc)

talk to your dw, maybe she can find something that 'rocks her world' (like i feel about my career now) and rings in some ££££. ultimatley, we are all on a treadmill, we are all going to die at some point, but its what you make of it when you are here, time is precious.

Cx

It would be worse if your DW worked too (not for her, perhaps, but for you).

When I was a SAHM DH just had to go to work, I did everything else. Now I work P/T he has to do stuff around the house as well, because timewise we share stuff 50-50.

Think carefully about your choices.

If I worked F/T, we would both be doing chores in the evening and have no leisure time at all.

Unless you change your job / size of your mortgage, it won;t get any better just because your DW works.

Xenia- there has been some research over many years by a scientist who's name I can't remember. Anyway it involved brain scans of hundreds of children brought up in different situations. The children brought up in groups without a love bond (parent, grandparent, aunt, uncle etc) had huge dark areas in the brain where certain connections hadn't formed. This, he said, leads to difficulties forming loving relationships in later life. Its a very good book with real research and I will find out his name etc.
If parents have no choice financially and have to use child care thats a totally different situation.
I just think its selfish-if money is not an issue- to have children and then not be arsed to spend time with them because you'd rather be doing a carreer. Small children who can't say how they feel must feel pretty rotten in a nursery situation if something upsets them and they want their mum to comfort them.
My sister did nannying for a while and so did a couple of friends. All said that the kids wanted their mum anytime they hurt themselves or felt ill etc.
It is hard to give up a career and do the mum thing. I had my own very successful business for 11 years before I had a baby and I have found it a huge shock at how hard parenting is. But its my duty to care for her and now it is not the chore it was.
Someone else said about her son being really sociable and she felt he'd have been happier in a nursery. My dd is extremely sociable so I have really gone out of my way to meet new mums and form friendships so that dd plays everyday with different kids. With me nearby she is confident to go off and play happily because she knows if she gets upset I am there in the background.
Anyway I am aware its not right for me to judge other parents because its really out of order, I just feel very strongly about children needing to feel loved which is unfortunately not what they will experience in the days that they are at nursery.

Oh dear, herts that's just what we don't want women doing in 2007. Mya be in 20 years when we're well beyond all those years of inequality at work for women but not now. If anyone should give up work at the moment it should be men as the default position.

On sj's point about if women work they still end up doing most housework they shouldn't let it be so. A lot of us don't and marry men who think things shoudl be fair and are able to achieve a fair balance at home. Women who don't are idiots and deserve all the inequities that they get.

man, with a love bond if the issue. Under 5s whose parent work do have a love bond. 4 in 5 woemn with under 5s work. Their children are find, bonded, adjusted, loved and have a security and comfort of khonwing the pattern of their days, cuddles from parents, then left with their loved nanny or child minder then one parent home by about 6 etc. It works fine and should not be a reason not to work if you're male or female but if a parent really cannot bear to be parted from the child which can be a father as well as a mother or else the father's wage is just a McDonald's wage (or the mother's for that matter if she's been so silly as to choose a low paid career..... take your daughters in hand over this today...) then I can see the economics of not working can work out but that's because fhte defective career choice usually.

heartsnessex....what wise things you have said.....I'm about to have my second baby and hope to do something similar careerwise...re-assuring to know that it is possible. think my DH currently feels a bit like OP, and a lot of the sentiments here echo our own lives at the moment....I think in this day and age, it is difficult for Dads as they are expected to do much more than our own dads did....my advice to OP....don't stop communicating with your DW...tell her how you feel, don't stop cuddling her and share as much spare time together as you can.

1st time I've posted in the men's room...sorry for crashing in like this

xenia, what do you mean by 'thats not what we want women doing in 2007' ??

Daisybump, go for it, we are all much happier.

Cx

p.s. if i want to return to the city i could, but i love my new career so much more and the money didnt make up for the unhappiness i felt at leaving the boys 6am-8pm four days a week.

cx

Manuka, Surely the children scanned for results of having no love-bond would have been children raised in third-world orphanages etc not children who's parent's work!?
My parents worked and I can certainly say I loved them just as much as any child with unemployed parents who are home all day!