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Victims of crime

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Could she have been murdered

95 replies

Streamofconsciousnesss · 18/11/2022 14:24

This is a sad and strange one and not recent. Please be gentle, I would like to hear your opinion.
I can't shake off the idea that this lady I knew was murdered by her husband.

Let's call her Mary. She was married to Alan for many decades, they were happy, prosperous and enjoying their retirement. Mary wholly was devoted to Alan and to her DCs, now grown ups, and to her GDCs. Her family was her world. Her house was her pride and joy, the backdrop of all family Christmases, summer holidays, engagements, weddings, christening, etc. Mary is active and engaged in the local community.
Sadly Alan passes away very suddenly, Mary's world utterly collapses. Her only comfort are her DCs and GDCs and visiting Alan's grave several times a day.
A few months later, to the surprise of absolutely everyone, Mary announces that she has met and is engaged to a man that no one has ever heard of, Tom, they marry within the year. Her children are shocked, but also, in spite of their shock, understanding; Mary seems to be happy. I meet Tom at her wedding, a funny little man, not a patch on Alan, but Mary is happy. Soon, another surprise, she sells her house and moves to a different part of the country with Tom, and buys a very nice house there. Very strange. Things have hardly settled that Mary is diagnosed with a terminal illness, and dies within just a few months. Just an unbelievable set of events, everyone is shocked and very sad. I go to Mary's funeral and there, the second I am greeted by Alan, this thought comes to my mind, from absolutely nowhere: 'You've killed her, haven't you.' This is kind of thought that you are supposed to dismiss, so I do, of course. Anyway, the situation is sad enough without crazy thoughts.
A little time passes, and then it turns out that Mary had altered her will to leave everything, house and money to Tom and nothing at all to her DCs and GDs. Her DCs, distraught by the deaths of both their parents in less than 2 years, try to fight this to the best of their abilities, but get nowhere. It's so out of character for Mary not to have wanted to look after her own family, there's no explanation for it. Tom makes off with everything and is now very hostile to Mary's family.
As if that wasn't enough, Tom gets married again, just a year later. No idea what happened to him since.

I mean, what the heck. Thank you if you've read so far. Seeing it written down actually convinces me even more that Mary was targeted and killed for her money. This is quite a few years ago but I can't shake that thought. I can't bear to imagine Mary's final months if this is true. What do you think?

OP posts:
Titsywoo · 18/11/2022 15:30

I don't think it is what you seem. The change of will is very likely to avoid inheritance tax. 2 people I know who died recently did this with the agreement that their new spouse would then give money to the deceased persons children. Later down the line.

MytummydontjigglejiggleItfolds · 18/11/2022 15:32

This reminds me of this family's awful experience of predatory marriage:

www.predatorymarriage.uk/

HappyHamsters · 18/11/2022 15:34

Are you family, was she buried, if you seriously think she was murdered you need to speak to the police and the coroner.

Streamofconsciousnesss · 18/11/2022 15:44

Thank you @UndisclosedBlackPudding and @MytummydontjigglejiggleItfolds
These things do happen, unfortunately. I don't think anyone wants to think like this so sometimes it remains uncovered.

@Titsywoo If there was such agreement alongside the will between Mary and her new husband, then it wasn't respected. The children were out of everything and had to fight a very dismissive Tom for the very small redress they got. It was all rather disgusting.

@MytummydontjigglejiggleItfolds I can't see what could have been distorted, though, the family dealt with it all with dignity and discretion. I only know what they told me and what I saw.

OP posts:
UndisclosedBlackPudding · 18/11/2022 15:51

OP the fact is this is an awful thing for you to be carrying, a suspicion like this. You could be right or you could be wide of the mark. But - and this is what I hope I'd do - I'd have a damn good think about it all and if I still felt the same I'd go and report my suspicions to the police and/or coroner. No-one needs to know you've done that. They may or may not take you seriously and they may or may not investigate. They may investigate to the point where they either think you could be right, and they carry on trying to find out, or they think you're wrong and drop it. But for YOU, at least you know that you have done your best to get it looked at, and you will rest easier with your own conscience. Very best of luck in whatever you decide. You know them; we don't.

Streamofconsciousnesss · 18/11/2022 15:53

@HappyHamsters That's the thing. I am related but not direct family. It's not really my place to go there and I certainly don't want to reopen old wounds in such a horrible way. Nothing like this has been discussed with me, to start with.
I wouldn't be surprised if it had crossed their minds at some point, but I don't know.

OP posts:
similarminimer · 18/11/2022 15:58

Death certificates are public records and you can request a copy of hers. If it says she died of disseminated cancer then I would strongly suggest that is correct and your instinct was wrong.

Streamofconsciousnesss · 18/11/2022 15:59

@UndisclosedBlackPudding Thank you for this. I really appreciate your thoughts.
I suppose a starting point could be, what happened to Tom and to his new wife.

OP posts:
Glorified · 18/11/2022 16:00

Streamofconsciousnesss · 18/11/2022 15:59

@UndisclosedBlackPudding Thank you for this. I really appreciate your thoughts.
I suppose a starting point could be, what happened to Tom and to his new wife.

Or previous wives.

Unless she was his first?

KangarooKenny · 18/11/2022 16:02

I think a similar thing happened to my DM. I believe she was a victim of mental abuse which led to alcoholism. I wasn’t aware of what was going on until after she had died, and she was cremated by her then husband and NOK.

Ihatecocomelon · 18/11/2022 16:04

Was Tom younger than Mary?

Comedycook · 18/11/2022 16:09

He may have been a bit predatory in terms of meeting a vulnerable woman and wanting her money...but murder? When someone dies, a doctor has to ascertain cause of death or there's a post mortem surely?

CallieApricot · 18/11/2022 16:09

It can happen. This guy who murdered the author Helen Bailey had previously totally got away with killing his first wife Diane Stewart. They only investigated her death further after he murdered Helen Bailey.
www.google.com/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/ian-stewart-found-guilty-of-murdering-wife-in-2010-six-years-before-he-killed-his-author-fiancee-helen-bailey-12536061

Streamofconsciousnesss · 18/11/2022 16:09

@Glorified or previous wives indeed. I seem to remember he had been married before.

How can I find marriage records?

So sorry @KangarooKenny Flowers

I've just found out she is buried with her first husband, a lovely headstone for them together. This is not where the original burial took place so her DCs must have moved her. Poor them.

OP posts:
Bluekerfuffle · 18/11/2022 16:13

it does some like manipulation. Were her family still in touch with her and on good terms after she moved away?
I always think in these cases, let’s just say she really had changed her will on her own with no influence, I still think the newcomer should do the decent thing and share it out with the family. Very suspicious when they want to keep everything regardless of bad feeling.

Streamofconsciousnesss · 18/11/2022 16:15

@Ihatecocomelon Similar age.

@Comedycook I don't think murder is on everyone's mind all the time, the opposite in fact. She was sick and died very soon after diagnosis, died of her illness as far as everyone was concerned, no reason to investigate.

OP posts:
AppleDumplingWithCustard · 18/11/2022 16:18

I would get a copy of her death certificate and see what the cause of death was. You can get it online. You just need name, date of birth and date of death.

Streamofconsciousnesss · 18/11/2022 16:21

@Bluekerfuffle The fact that she moved away was hard on one of her DCs with DGs who could no longer see her a few times a week, drop in for a chat. Suddenly she was no longer involved in her GDCs daily lives, but apart from that everything was fine, good feelings all round up until the succession went through.

OP posts:
RandomCatGenerator · 18/11/2022 16:23

Can you cause cancer with poison?

Byfleet · 18/11/2022 16:27

@Streamofconsciousnesss
I suppose a starting point could be, what happened to Tom and to his new wife

OP I really disagree with this. What would Tom's new life, or wife, tell you about whether he killed Mary? Nothing. It would just throw up new things for you to speculate about.

The death certificate is the only factual evidence you have. You really must start with that. It's not difficult to do.

Loocheeyar · 18/11/2022 16:29

Could have been pancreatic cancer if can be just four weeks

Who witnessed the will ?maybe get the signature checked

Streamofconsciousnesss · 18/11/2022 16:33

@Byfleet Well I hope his new wife had a more pleasant and longer life with Tom to start with. Re death certificate I can't remember her new married name (name at death) and her birth record falls in the years not online yet. So I'm a bit stuck, maybe go via marriage records.
@Loocheeyar I don't have access to the will!

OP posts:
ConkerBonkers · 18/11/2022 16:35

I think it's highly suspicious, Tom sounds like a predator, and I think a pressing concern should be that he is endangering further lives. He sounds a highly skilled con man.

Streamofconsciousnesss · 18/11/2022 16:37

ConkerBonkers · 18/11/2022 16:35

I think it's highly suspicious, Tom sounds like a predator, and I think a pressing concern should be that he is endangering further lives. He sounds a highly skilled con man.

Yes he could be, or it could be all in my head.

OP posts:
Bluekerfuffle · 18/11/2022 16:40

Do you know where she met Tom? If she was visiting the graveyard often, it makes you wonder if certain types might hang around there looking for vulnerable people as targets.