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Could she have been murdered

95 replies

Streamofconsciousnesss · 18/11/2022 14:24

This is a sad and strange one and not recent. Please be gentle, I would like to hear your opinion.
I can't shake off the idea that this lady I knew was murdered by her husband.

Let's call her Mary. She was married to Alan for many decades, they were happy, prosperous and enjoying their retirement. Mary wholly was devoted to Alan and to her DCs, now grown ups, and to her GDCs. Her family was her world. Her house was her pride and joy, the backdrop of all family Christmases, summer holidays, engagements, weddings, christening, etc. Mary is active and engaged in the local community.
Sadly Alan passes away very suddenly, Mary's world utterly collapses. Her only comfort are her DCs and GDCs and visiting Alan's grave several times a day.
A few months later, to the surprise of absolutely everyone, Mary announces that she has met and is engaged to a man that no one has ever heard of, Tom, they marry within the year. Her children are shocked, but also, in spite of their shock, understanding; Mary seems to be happy. I meet Tom at her wedding, a funny little man, not a patch on Alan, but Mary is happy. Soon, another surprise, she sells her house and moves to a different part of the country with Tom, and buys a very nice house there. Very strange. Things have hardly settled that Mary is diagnosed with a terminal illness, and dies within just a few months. Just an unbelievable set of events, everyone is shocked and very sad. I go to Mary's funeral and there, the second I am greeted by Alan, this thought comes to my mind, from absolutely nowhere: 'You've killed her, haven't you.' This is kind of thought that you are supposed to dismiss, so I do, of course. Anyway, the situation is sad enough without crazy thoughts.
A little time passes, and then it turns out that Mary had altered her will to leave everything, house and money to Tom and nothing at all to her DCs and GDs. Her DCs, distraught by the deaths of both their parents in less than 2 years, try to fight this to the best of their abilities, but get nowhere. It's so out of character for Mary not to have wanted to look after her own family, there's no explanation for it. Tom makes off with everything and is now very hostile to Mary's family.
As if that wasn't enough, Tom gets married again, just a year later. No idea what happened to him since.

I mean, what the heck. Thank you if you've read so far. Seeing it written down actually convinces me even more that Mary was targeted and killed for her money. This is quite a few years ago but I can't shake that thought. I can't bear to imagine Mary's final months if this is true. What do you think?

OP posts:
Hooverphobe · 18/11/2022 14:31

My aunt was murdered by her new husband… but it was never proven. When her children arrived at the house (now his) upon hearing the news, they found him in bed with a woman half his age and the first thing he said was “I didn’t poison her”.

sadly I think it’s more common than we’d like to imagine.

peppapig79 · 18/11/2022 14:31

Very interesting.....what was the terminal illness?

He definitely manipulated her thats for sure.

Streamofconsciousnesss · 18/11/2022 14:33

It sounds made up, right? It isn't.I would really appreciate some opinions.
Her new husband could also just have seen an opportunity and taken it, I expect.

OP posts:
RoseAndRose · 18/11/2022 14:35

Has anyone got a copy of the death certificate?

A lot of this scenario seems to hang on the nature of the illness. If it was an aggressive cancer then the timings are sadly plausible.

MollieMarie · 18/11/2022 14:35

Sounds like such an awful situation all round, OP Flowers

There's definitely some very suspicious things in your post that jump out at me.

You mention she was diagnosed with a terminal illness, do you know what the illness was?

Death certificates are available online for anyone to order and might help shed some light on how she died. You'll get to see if her official cause of death ties in with her 'terminal illness'.

Streamofconsciousnesss · 18/11/2022 14:37

Oh thanks @Hooverphobe and @peppapig79 !
I do think it's probably more common than we dare to think. But when the family is shell shocked, they don't necessarily want to go there.

@peppapig79 I can't say because I've tried to not give identifying information, but I know that this illness can be induced by poisoning.
@Hooverphobe what was your aunt illness?

OP posts:
Streamofconsciousnesss · 18/11/2022 14:39

Thank you @RoseAndRose and @MollieMarie

Yes very aggressive cancer.

OP posts:
endofthelinefinally · 18/11/2022 14:39

At the very least, I hope her family have investigated the circumstances of the altering of the will. Unless, of course, she didn't immediately make a new will as soon as she married Tom. Her original will would have been invalid at the point of the marriage. If she made a new one during her illness, the solicitor would have had to ensure she was of sound mind.
I think there are a lot of very manipulative people around. I know of many cases of men and women marrying vulnerable people to get their assets.
I am sure murders happen more often than we know about too.

Hooverphobe · 18/11/2022 14:40

She was “healthy”, went out to lunch with friends - said she felt a bit sick and was going home to rest. Died that day. Her friends said her eyes were yellow but otherwise she looked ok.

so… when the first thing said was “I didn’t poison her”, it’s all more than a little suspicious.

this was outwith the UK and he was local which I’m sure didn’t help any search for justice.

Sniffypete · 18/11/2022 14:44

She wouldn't have had to change her will, just marrying him would mean that the will would be invalid and everything would go to the husband (unless a clause was put in a will with the intention to marry Tom and included his name).

Streamofconsciousnesss · 18/11/2022 14:44

@endofthelinefinally she made a new will after remarrying, she didn't inform her children, it all came as a surprise to them after her death. Honestly it's quite distressing to think how she could have been coerced into despoiling her DCs. There's no way. You'd hope a solicitor would flag something they find suspicious, wouldn't you?

OP posts:
Kanaloa · 18/11/2022 14:46

I think it’s probably more likely that he was manipulative/abusive and, when she became unwell, he forced her to change her will to reflect him over her family.

Not that it’s impossible of course. Who knows. It’s a very sad situation.

Streamofconsciousnesss · 18/11/2022 14:47

So sorry@Hooverphobe , what an awful shock for your family, with no hope of closure.Flowers

OP posts:
RoseAndRose · 18/11/2022 14:48

It is very unlikely that he could have poisoned her in a way to induce an aggressive cancer in the timeframe you describe.

Many doctors, nurses and possibly a hospice and/or specialist visiting nurses such as Marie Curie ones would have been superintending the care of a terminally ill patient. Sorry to be blunt, but even if he had somehow managed to smother her, or give her an overdose of painkillers (she may well have been on extremely strong ones in the last days or weeks), then it is only a small difference in the timing. Would that be worth the risk, when it's all coming to him soon anyway?

Marriage revokes a Will, so she would have been advised to make a new one in anticipation of the marriage or very shortly thereafter. Or she may have done it on diagnosis

There is a distinct possibility that he had a hand in what she chose for her Will. But that's a far cry from actively killing someone

Summerhouse2013 · 18/11/2022 14:58

I got a bit confused as you said Alan had died and Mary used to visit his grave, but at Mary's funeral you was greeted by Alan! I assume you meant the new husband, Tom?

Streamofconsciousnesss · 18/11/2022 15:00

@RoseAndRose it would be a bitter comfort to think that there was nothing suspicious about her illness, but a comfort all the same.
She made a new will some time between remarrying and her death.
For her children, the loss of both parents was hard enough. To think that she wanted to deprive them of hers and Alan lifetime's worth of hard work doesn't make any sense. There is no way she would have wanted that, it's unbearable to think how she could have been forced to do so whilst very sick and vulnerable. Quite hard for DCs to think that this man is enjoying the spoils, with his new wife. I know they fought hard to get redress and got a little, but very little.

OP posts:
Georgeskitchen · 18/11/2022 15:05

There is no shortage of men (and women) who are on the look out for wealthy, recently bereaved an very vulnerable people.
While it's unlikely that Tom actually killed her, it seems very possible that her co-erced her into changing her will to exclude her loving family.

Streamofconsciousnesss · 18/11/2022 15:08

Summerhouse2013 · 18/11/2022 14:58

I got a bit confused as you said Alan had died and Mary used to visit his grave, but at Mary's funeral you was greeted by Alan! I assume you meant the new husband, Tom?

I did mean greeted by Tom, sorry. I changed the names several time as somehow they always seemed too close to the real names, and made a mistake.

Yes that was eery, that moment. That thought formed out of nowhere, it's not like I was thinking anything at all apart from being sad, at the time.
A very odd funeral anyway, everyone was stunned and he didn't seem that distraught, but then you don't judge people on that as everyone grieves differently.

I think it's just as likely he saw and took an opportunity, but it's not like sinister things never happen either.

OP posts:
MyTabbyCats · 18/11/2022 15:09

Sounds as though the new husband took advantage of the situation and persuaded the poor lady to alter her will. May even have convinced her to sign it without her properly reading it. So sorry this happened to your friend because they sound like a really nice family.

MadeForThis · 18/11/2022 15:12

Sounds like he manipulated her to get her money rather than murdered her.

MyTabbyCats · 18/11/2022 15:13

The thought that went through your mind at the funeral was your gut instinct telling you that you didn’t trust him.

Streamofconsciousnesss · 18/11/2022 15:18

MyTabbyCats · 18/11/2022 15:13

The thought that went through your mind at the funeral was your gut instinct telling you that you didn’t trust him.

It came as we shook hands, very weird, and very clear. Not unformed feelings but clear words.
Can't say I had that happen before or since with anyone else.

OP posts:
Wetblanket78 · 18/11/2022 15:18

Hooverphobe · 18/11/2022 14:40

She was “healthy”, went out to lunch with friends - said she felt a bit sick and was going home to rest. Died that day. Her friends said her eyes were yellow but otherwise she looked ok.

so… when the first thing said was “I didn’t poison her”, it’s all more than a little suspicious.

this was outwith the UK and he was local which I’m sure didn’t help any search for justice.

My dad's eyes went yellow that's related to problems with your liver. He found out he had hepatitis b I thought it was mainly drug user's that got that but apparently not.

More investigations and he was eventually diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. He had the op to remove the cancer had chemo. But it came back a year later and told the chances of fighting it a second time was 5%. A week later he was told he was terminal and he passed away within less than a month.

Streamofconsciousnesss · 18/11/2022 15:24

Thank you for your thoughts everyone.
There's no chance to know either way. I hope she's at peace and reunited with Alan.

OP posts:
UndisclosedBlackPudding · 18/11/2022 15:27

Do you know the Helen Bailey and Ian Stewart case OP? If he hadn't gone on to murder Helen he'd have got away with the murder of his first wife, Diane.

It's extremely possible that the man you know killed Mary. Obviously there's the medical issues, but how much of that are you completely sure happened and how much was reported to you and could have been distorted?

I'm sorry your friend died and I'm sorry for her family.

Here's an article on HB. There's plenty more articles out there expanding on it. She seems to have been a gentle, trusting and innocent soul. It's so distressing.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/feb/23/helen-bailey-murder-ian-stewart-jailed-years-killing-author