Irish posters - "having a paddy"

[BarbaraHoward]

Irish posters - can I canvas your opinions on the use of "having a paddy" to mean "having a tantrum"? I've been having a bit of back and forth (well, plenty of forth not much back in truth) with MNHQ over the past day or two and I want to check that I'm not going against the majority view here.

IMO, the phrase is awful, and plainly anti Irish. I know most people using it aren't doing so to slag Irish people off, but the phrase is still awful IMO.

I've been here a long time, and reported the phrase more than I can remember. Usually, it's just deleted right away. Raising it on a thread always derails it as people just go on the offensive.

I reported it yesterday and got the immediate email that it was being checked out, but the post stayed up for hours despite a follow up email, another post and a thread in Site Stuff. It was then edited rather than deleted, which I thought was the norm for offensive language. I reported another use this morning and it's still up.

What are your views? Is this a fight worth having with MNHQ or am I out of step with the majority of Irish posters on here?

Thanks :)

Wow what a shocking and nasty and awful post.

People on here were saying a minute ago that English Irish relations are totally fine!

Then here comes a poster writing really nasty things about the English. I've seen this attitude before.

You said "The English are unpopular among other nations"

What ALL of the English people?

Are you including English children in that?

What have they done.

England is completely multicultural as well.

You know people are descended from loads of different nationalities in England.

Are you saying all those millions of people in England who are descended from loads of different nationalities and heritage, are unpopular among other nations?.

That was a nasty post.

I just had to read that again.

So you're saying that all of the English people are ' arrogant, sneaky and underhand.'

Have you met every single English person then?

Just to point out the ridiculousness of your statement.

What about the thousands of children born in England, to Irish parents? Are those children all 'arrogant sneaky and underhand' because they were born in England?

What a shocking post.

@Lallydallydune

What part of my words the 'feelings. . . .toward . . . .the system that perpetrated that, and . . . . the remaining vestiges of the techniques used.'

do you imagine means 'an innocent English child [is] responsible for anything that some rich people did in England's history.'

I do think innocent English children, like innocent children everywhere, should be taught not to use the language of abuse and repression. That's a lesson all of us, including me and you need to learn, by listening to people pointing out what is unacceptable, and accepting that. Saying so is not 'Blind hatred'.

It's a matter of shame on Mumsnet that it is not prepared to help with that pointing out.

You wrote:

"Not like the feelings of the inhabitants of the country where England started its 800 years+ colonial project, with the invasion, theft of land, suppression and destruction of culture, asset-stripping, dehumanising of the inhabitants and outright genocide, towards the system that perpetrated that, and towards the remaining vestiges of the techniques used."

And I pointed out to you that none of the current English people did that.

People born on a land, are not responsible for their ancestors actions.

Yes I agree that education can help against racism.

There is still too much racism and division everywhere. Against so many different cultures and groups.

The " Having a paddy" phrase which diminishes Irish people should not be used in England or on Mumsnet.

The abusive things that are commonylly said about English people in Ireland , should also not be accepted by people, or taught to children. It perpetuates hate.

See the post on this thread, where a poster wrote terrible things about English people.

We can't write "English people should stop saying hurtful things about us, but its ok for us to write horrible things about English people".

Each side always think it's the other side that's wrong, but people don't look at their own behaviour. Which is what would make change.

They may not be responsible for their ancestors actions but they are certainly responsible for carry on with their ancestors attitudes.

Using offensive language that was introduced to show show contempt and disdain for Irish people is not acceptable. Carrying on using the language when told it is offensive and arguing that it's OK to use it, is exhibiting the exact same contempt and disdain that their ancestors exhibited.

Those posts from Becky of MNHQ show just how insidiously anti-Irish English society really is.

“Their ancestors”
Most British people didn’t come from the aristocratic landowning class and many had ancestors that suffered poverty and deprivation.
Many British people have ancestors from other parts of the world - many had parents/ grandparents who experienced economic hardships and came to Britain as refugees .
Many of these people might use the phrase without meaning a slur upon the Irish.

@Piglet89 You sound prejudiced against the English. Isn’t that a form of racism?

I agree.
Imo it’s hate speech.

Are you seriously trying to claim that only the aristocratic classes exhibited contempt and disdain for the Irish? Can I suggest you look at the class of people who were the Balck & Tans? Or more recently, the squaddies in NI. You stated they are not responsible for the actions of their ancestors. I responded to state they are resonsible for carrying on with the attitudes of their ancestors.

It has been repeatedly pointed out that the phrases is offensive. While you might not initially be aware of that, to continue to use it once it is pointed out is deliberately using it as a slur on the Irish.

Back in the 80's/90's it was deemed perfectly acceptable to refer to a corner shop using a racial slur against Pakistani people. Most people now recognise that is unacceptable. Continuing to use offensive terms against the Irish is no different.

I was just pointing out that “their ancestors “ is an odd way to speak of an entire country made up of people from all races and classes and backgrounds.
It’s not just the English who are racist - you can find a fair few racist Irish as well .

🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄

And if you've read the post I had quoted and replied to it would be clear that I was responding to the poster's statement that: "People born on a land, are not responsible for their ancestors actions."

Edited to say that of course there are racist Irish people, just as there are racists in any nationally. However that is not what we are discussing here.

Yeah well we’ve definitely seen the racism on here
@Piglet89
“FWIW the English are unpopular among other nations - not just Ireland (in part at least) because they're seen as simultaneously arrogant and also sneaky and underhand. The culture in England and the inability to say what they mean supports that, I'm afraid. “

Some people change their nationality as often as their username on here

🤷‍♀️

And if they have dual nationality, can't they?

Well lots of people dont just have one nationality.

Many people have more than one nationality.

Have you heard of dual nationality.

Eg. There's a woman I follow on Social media.

She has Irish and German nationality.

Then there's Michael Fassbender, the actor. He also has German and Irish nationality. One German, one Irish parent.

Agree. Disgusting and disgraceful xenophobic post from @Piglet89 (at 16.14 yesterday 2 Dec 2024.)

Too silly and laughable and ridiculous to take seriously though. And full of inaccuracies and opinions of hers. (That no-one cares about anyway.)

Many people have more than one nationality.
Indeedy

It was bad.

Can't we all get along.

Yep. Imagine someone saying that about any other race or creed?

Always so fashionable and hilarious to take nasty jabs and potshots at the English though. Sometimes the 'British' but always the English.

I can only put it down to jealousy. Don't hate us coz you ain't us.

And if you're English and you're slating the English, then fucking SHAME on you. Have a word with yourself!

I do wish that Irish people and English people would get on with each other better.

It would make life easier for both countries.

Isn't it lovely having a chance to engage with the topic and explain why certain phrases can be harmful.

You haven't seen the threads here about Americans, have you?