Irish posters - "having a paddy"

[BarbaraHoward]

Irish posters - can I canvas your opinions on the use of "having a paddy" to mean "having a tantrum"? I've been having a bit of back and forth (well, plenty of forth not much back in truth) with MNHQ over the past day or two and I want to check that I'm not going against the majority view here.

IMO, the phrase is awful, and plainly anti Irish. I know most people using it aren't doing so to slag Irish people off, but the phrase is still awful IMO.

I've been here a long time, and reported the phrase more than I can remember. Usually, it's just deleted right away. Raising it on a thread always derails it as people just go on the offensive.

I reported it yesterday and got the immediate email that it was being checked out, but the post stayed up for hours despite a follow up email, another post and a thread in Site Stuff. It was then edited rather than deleted, which I thought was the norm for offensive language. I reported another use this morning and it's still up.

What are your views? Is this a fight worth having with MNHQ or am I out of step with the majority of Irish posters on here?

Thanks :)

Not, I hasten to say, that I'd want to. I even avoid talking about a particular type of gym shoe since I've learned it's forbidden.

But 'Croppy lie down' was already offensive two centuries ago.

I had a very similar reply @Runssometimes that also stated there's no change in policy. I'd asked for permission to repost it as I wanted to keep myself right. I've also followed up with a list of 47 report numbers going back 5 years. 40 deleted posts, 7 edited ones, plus a post on one of them where a MNHQ moderator had said it's not acceptable. It is a change in policy and the lies about that are as annoying as anything.

Thanks @Runssometimes .

Ignorance isn't a defense.

You could post all kinds of offensive terms and phrases and claim innocence if "intentions" was the only criterion for leaving something offensive up there.

MNHQ are well aware by now that this is a racist phrase based on a stereotype that was always meant to be offensive.

They should always delete it, imo. They should also include a note saying phrases based on negative stereotypes of Irish people are racist and not tolerated, just in case anyone wonders what caused the deletion.

I've never seen them leave a note on any deleted post.

So MNHQ are basically telling us to derail threads so?

Because that’s what invariably happens, even though you try to point out the problems with the phrase politely and in the knowledge that the person using it probably didn’t know its history.

There’ll always be some posters on the thread who just don’t or won’t accept what you’re trying to tell them. It happens without fail.

Because "Paddy" was always a menial underling, someone from a deeply rural background put of his depth in cultured England, someone uncouth and lacking in manners, someone of absolitely no account in the British hierarchy. And "having a paddy" means and always meant "being typically Irish - drinking and brawling in the street".

Above all, because all of the above is a stereotype and "Paddy" represented all the negativity.

"Paddy" is always a sneering reference to Irish people.

Do you get it now?

It's like I say: acceptance of anti-Irish tropes is openly accepted in English society.

Me neither, but they should.

It would clear things up a bit.

Or faggots. Nah . And rightly so too. Still it's good MNHQ got back to you eventually. I thought they were being passive aggressive with the old silent treatment. Or in the vernacular - ' having a Brexit'. No offence intended. Language just evolves innit?

I'm so sick of the double standards on here and of the "gotcha" mentality that is spreading like the plague. It's pointless trying to discuss anything.

Yes and it's also the same the other way round.

I've heard a huge amount of anti -English abuse in Ireland.

Many people in both of the countries don't like people from the other country.

We all know that relations are not great between the two countries.

It's well known round the whole of Europe that England and Ireland don't like each other.

It's not a phrase I tend to use but I probably have in the past, with no consideration that it's linked with/offensive to Irish folks, but now I know i won't use it again and will gently educate others. Thank you for posting to raise awareness and absolutely continue to flag it

Well said.

My Irish relatives in the London area had similar experiences.

Dehumanisation and systematic, comprehensive denigration of groups of people should always be condemned.

Thanks @mamajong .

We all know that relations are not great between the two countries.
Fed up of this shite talk as well.

Yup. Even our governments get along ok now despite Brexit.

If dehumanisation and denigration of groups of people should be condemned, shouldn't we also stop the horrible things that are said about English people in Ireland?

It goes both ways.

Janejeffer try to write one post without swearing.

I am certainly genuine. I haven't really used mumsnet for a while but used it when conceiving my 15 month old. I tried to read as much of the thread, but I was dealing with a screaming little one so rang my family for their views and none shared them so I admit to getting distracted reading.

I then felt completely excluded as I am not Irish enough for this post. I won't be commenting anymore and I think I'll probably stop using mumsnet again, I stupidly gave my 2 cents not realising I had to declare parentage, I did declare my dads name to be the word so many get offended by as it is strange to me that my dads name is viewed badly. Sadly I have always known my Irish heritage to be so inclusive and didn't find that here.

So I am taking my exhausted self away and I certainly won't be back on craicnet as it's not as inclusive as the Irish I know and love.

Thank you to all who commented positively on my behalf.

Would you like to elaborate your rude post from "fed up of this shite talk".

To something more intelligent?

No I fucking well wouldn't @Lallydallydune

Well known that England and Ireland don't like each other makes it sound like a random east vs west of the Pennines thing.

Not like the feelings of the inhabitants of the country where England started its 800 years+ colonial project, with the invasion, theft of land, suppression and destruction of culture, asset-stripping, dehumanising of the inhabitants and outright genocide, towards the system that perpetrated that, and towards the remaining vestiges of the techniques used.

There are other bits of the former empire who keep a close eye on presumptious attitudes from the Imperial state.

Using the name for a person - capital P, Paddy, proper noun - isn't the same as using the name as a common noun, whether with a lower case or upper case P, to denote stupidity, roughness, heavy drinking, crudeness, lack of civility, lack of education, and "otherness".

I have relatives named Paddy - an uncle and a cousin.

Uncle Paddy isn't "a paddy" and my cousin Paddy isn't "a paddy".

They are not "Paddies".

I've never heard it in the US, where the Irish generally get a better reception than we do in the UK, for some reason...

Hope you reconsider @PPop. It’s just an emotive subject I guess. Sorry you felt excluded.