Irish posters - "having a paddy"

[BarbaraHoward]

Irish posters - can I canvas your opinions on the use of "having a paddy" to mean "having a tantrum"? I've been having a bit of back and forth (well, plenty of forth not much back in truth) with MNHQ over the past day or two and I want to check that I'm not going against the majority view here.

IMO, the phrase is awful, and plainly anti Irish. I know most people using it aren't doing so to slag Irish people off, but the phrase is still awful IMO.

I've been here a long time, and reported the phrase more than I can remember. Usually, it's just deleted right away. Raising it on a thread always derails it as people just go on the offensive.

I reported it yesterday and got the immediate email that it was being checked out, but the post stayed up for hours despite a follow up email, another post and a thread in Site Stuff. It was then edited rather than deleted, which I thought was the norm for offensive language. I reported another use this morning and it's still up.

What are your views? Is this a fight worth having with MNHQ or am I out of step with the majority of Irish posters on here?

Thanks :)

My understanding is it's a corruption of "Saxon" - from a time when some English people were Saxon

Do you mean British, or do you mean English? 😉

There are plenty of things English people should know, but frequently don’t. I should imagine that the same is true of Irish (or French, or German, or Scottish, or American people…), it’s nothing personal that they don’t know.

the potato famine...

You do know that the potato crop failed all over Europe? It was only in Ireland that the population at the end of the 1841-1851 decade had halved. Food was exported from Ireland throughout that decade. An Gorta Mór was a managed disaster, considered by many to have been a genocide.

The memory of it was one of the drivers of the Irish revolution, so the victims might be seen as not having died in vain - though I doubt any of them would have found any comfort in that.

Also have to grit my teeth at the term "potato famine" it's the great famine or the great hunger.

There was loads of other food being grown in Ireland at the time - but it was shipped out to Britain: the failure of the potato should not have caused a famine.

I don't think any of these phrases should be deleted by Mumsnet really though. As they are not said offensively and posters call out other posters on them.

When I was at school the history of Ireland was taught. I live in the UK and it was just part of the curriculum. Along with the scramble for Africa etc. I think because history was taught linearly whatever was important was taught.
So the Civil war, for example, also included Cromwell, the siege of Drogheda etc. In the UK history seems to be taught as topics now, my kids don't know half as much as I do about history.
Hope that makes sense.

I have never met a German, French, or American person who thinks Ireland is part of their country. That level of ignorance seems reserved for a few (but that's still too many!) Brits.

Ok yes it does make sense thanks. I misunderstood you

I'm gratified by the number of people who have come on here and said 'I've used 'having a paddy' for decades, I never realised it was offensive, but now I know, I'll stop using it'. Thank you.

On the other hand, people who say 'Paddy is just a common Irish name' can't also claim 'I never realised paddy was anything to with being Irish'... !
I'm both of these people. Happy to accept it's offensive and not use it but also never associated the word paddy in this context with the name Paddy and therefore as an Irish connection. I thought it was just a random word like strop or tantrum

@LikeWhoUsesTypewritersAnyway
calm yourself.
im pointing out the OP directly addressed Irish people. On CraicNet and asked a question to get opinions of Irish people. Not Irish adjacent.

i didn’t @ you in particular in my point. I said plenty of Irish people are fine with it/choose not to argue. But many, many are not.

I don’t have a ‘narrative’ and quite frankly couldn’t give a shite what your family thinks. But the phrase is perjorative, many are not unreasonably offended. Many are also not unreasonably not offended. It’s fine.

I just don’t understand why anyone would use any phrase that they know is offensive to plenty of people when other words to describe a think exist.

like throwing toys out of a pram for example. You might know that one,

Yes, I do realise the point.
My father, always referred to a tantrum as ' having a paddy ' it was part of the venaccular in my Irish family. I just asked him if he was offended and he said "Don't be silly it is nothing to get your knickers in a twist or have a paddy about!
I now live in exile and will probably be excommunicated as I am not offended.

I agree it's nothing personal in most cases . Lord knows my own knowledge of history is pretty lacking so I'd be hypocritical to judge others.

There is a systemic problem though that so many educated in Britain are so ignorant of not just Irish history but the history of the relationship between the two countries. I've read some absolute shockers on here about the Troubles, for example, and that was a civil war in the UK within most posters' lifetimes.

Not to mention the number who thought Ireland would just leave the EU along with the UK.

It just means Saxon. An English person. The only people from GB that were traditionally called ‘British’ in the Irish language, after the arrival of the Saxons, were the Welsh. Breathnach is Welsh/British. Wales is literally Little Britain or Britain Minor - An Bhreatain Bheag. I suppose the memory remained in the language that the Angles/Saxons/Jutes (who became the English) were new arrivals to the island and were a different people to the original Britons, so they were called Saxons. The Welsh retained the label of being actual native/original Britons.

Of course now the term British is used for the modern nationality of someone from the UK. As a political reality, I suppose.

As an aside, some Welsh or must have gone west as Breathnach or Welsh/Walsh is not an uncommon surname in Ireland. Not new either as some come from Irish speaking areas.

I never knew about the meaning of either expression but have heard beyond the pale way more than having a paddy, which I wonder if it's a regional thing? I've never used either but plenty of my friends use the former, never the latter.

I lived in Germany and none of them thought Ireland was part of their country but a huge number thought Ireland was part of the UK, like nearly half of those who expressed an opinion. One of them (one of my German teachers) was very insistent that I came from Great Britain and argued back when I said Ireland was a separate country that was also part of the EU, I'm pretty sure that she changed the form that I filled in after I'd left the room.

I haven't read the whole thread, but I read on here a few years ago about it being an offensive term and I've never used it since. I don't understand why people would continue to use a phrase once they had been told it was offensive, so rude.

I think some people think it gives them edge!

I guess what bothers me is someone not knowing the limits of their own sovereign territory. Germany is very clear that they don't own Poland, France is very clear that Belgium is a different country despite the shared language.

I don't know the exact geographical details of every country in the world (or even in Europe, I'm slightly ashamed to admit), but I do know the details of my own country. I could point out Ireland on a map and also be very clear what isn't Ireland.

But sure, I put it down to ignorance and not malice, like I've said in a previous post. In the context of this thread, it means I'm not shocked that MN moderators don't take potentially offensive terms like 'throw a paddy' seriously. Slightly irritating, but not surprising.

Thanks for consistently reporting posts that use the term, OP, and for starting this thread. Might mean people use it a bit less from now on! :)

I strongly dislike the term "having a paddy and I always challenge the person who says it. I also deeply dislike “anti-Irish sentiment,” as it downplays the very real issue of racism against Irish people. There is a troubling combination of ignorance and arrogance surrounding Anglo-Irish politics and history particularly among some British nationals, that manifests as racism. While overt anti-Irish racism may have diminished, I believe it has not disappeared—it has simply become more subtle, often disguised as humor or "banter." If you replace "Irish" with any other minority, the racist undertones become glaringly obvious.

As someone with an Irish name that includes an accent over a vowel, I’ve frequently been asked for an "English translation." This is a request I doubt would ever be made of someone from another minority background, further highlighting the persistent, unspoken prejudice that lingers in the UK.

.

Never heard it before on here

Underneath this thread, under the 'Similar Threads' tab is thread from January entitled 'Colleague said something was a bit Irish'. I clicked on and read the first page of comments and quite a lot were comments such as 'couldn't get too worked over this tbh' or 'sounds like something my Irish gran would say'. Someone said that the OP sounded a bit woke. Some well meaning people were saying 'that must mean it's brilliant as I live the Irish. I didn't venture much beyond Page 1.

I think this sentiment exemplifies a kind of attitude of 'it's just the Irish. Who cares.'

The first time I heard 'that's so Irish', as a reference to doing something stupid, my jaw hit the floor and I was extremely offended, far more than at the paddy throwing (though it was bad).

As I said, I do feel that Irish born and bred people, who move to England, have a specific experience compared to Irish by decent people raised in England, or born-and-bred Irish who never lived in England. The former situation is where myself and a lot of other Irish ex pats, really found out how we felt when we heard people talking about having a Paddy or something being 'So Irish'.

I’m Irish, lived all my life in Ireland, Irish parents etc etc.
I heard about the phrase a number of years ago when a friend who had lived in England in the 80s told me it’s something people say there. It was in the context of a conversation about how she was treated as an Irish person generally and it was pretty appalling. Other than that I have only heard it on here. As nobody here in Ireland says it, I don’t have to hear it and so it doesn’t make much difference to me. I don’t particularly like it but posters using it without bad intention doesn’t bother me, or whether the comment is removed or how quickly. People on here often say far worse as a matter of course anyway.

My boss...born, raised and living in Ireland, leaving cert done through Irish...will sometimes say that something is very Irish.

To mean stupid?

But it's the same thing. A word that originally meant something else now with a derogatory meaning.

It is used offensively where I live in Scotland.

My mum would use it sometimes, but she doesn't use it to mean stupid. I'm finding it hard to put into words the way she means it - sort of a shades of grey, bending the rules sort of thing? Sometimes quite the opposite of stupid. That's what I used to think Irish twins meant - sort of twins but not really. Not the anti Catholic stuff, can't control themselves having so many babies stuff.