Belong 2 linking up with Scouting Ireland. I feel this is extremely inappropriate

[Nonpoliticalmum]

Scouting Ireland is marching with Belong 2 in Dublin Pride. Given the historical background & legal cases within Scouting Ireland I do not feel comfortable with this. Surely scouting is supposed to be non political.
Parents pay huge membership fees, surely they should be consulted.
Also they are launching a "Rainbow Award" with Belong 2 according to their fb page which has comments turned off..

@Marblessolveeverything
By alone I meant without doctor's input. Sorry, I should have been clearer. Many parents feel helpless of course. A dead child is often presented (by the child) as the orher 'choice' they have. The child's distress is very real, I'm not doubting that for a minute. The cause of the distress is a lot less certain though and that's a problem activist groups are not keen to acknowledge.

So a neutral Chair is appointed, reps from LGBT, parents, phycologist, child development expert and the groups referenced are brought together.

You do realise that is most certainly not what is happening in our schools? I wish!!

This is from Scouting Irelands trans policy which I googled. On of the options given for overnights is that the trans child can choose where it's sleeps on overnights & can choose to go in with the gender it identifies as.
This infuriates me. My girls go on overnights & would not be happy with this. Does their comfort matter? Does their feelings matter? Would the girls parents be consulted?

@Toosweetfan this is specifically for the scout issue I was referencing. Which I am now assuming is a digital badge for the youth leaders not the cubs ?

See how the misreading of something completely changes the conversation - it is a digital badge for all youth leaders not a scout badge. Facts matter.

The real risk is online, where there is no oversight. Yesterday for the first time I looked at their website (belong to) on a very cursory glance they appear to reference appropriate bodies, WHO, HSE, the Rainbow badge appears to be youth worker focused which I can see aligning with the Scout leadership/peer mentoring approach.

On this thread, and others there is inaccuracies published e.g. their website clearly sets out the law on medical access, references the HSE approved contact etc, shows links with MH support organisation. It doesn't reference 16 year olds how to access hormones.

I appreciate the Professional opinion of the professor regarding assessment techniques. There is obviously a gap in having appropriately trained people, however to be fair, it appears they are following the WHO approved approach, just possibly implemented badly ? I would compare that to the CAMHS issue in Kerry, where a doctor went off in a single crusade prescribing inappropriate medicine to young people with MH issues. Possibly having good intentions but causing harm.

The reality is 90% of us are trying to make our way through a wade of misinformation from a number of sources.

Getting people together and having frank discussions can do no harm, at the very worst people walk away agreeing to disagree but with clarity of each others views.

Young people have a lot of issues thrown at them we should be leading by example in how to critically analyse, to research ethically and ensure we are not part of the misinformation.

Is that a serious question? You think parents shouldn't be the ones talk to our kids in an age and content appropriate way about sexual orientation? You think it should be passed off to activity groups? Would you like to hand over total responsibility for raising your kids, or are there just parts of it?

Kids live in the real world which has gay people in it making it really easy to introduce the idea of same sex attraction and the normality, the banality of it. Knowing that their uncle, friend, the local postman, their busdriver, hockey coach or whoever has a same sex partner is how you normalise and bed-in acceptance. It is not that hard.

Letting a TRA lobby group like BeLongTo which issues the most horrific guidelines (don't tell parents, let a child use the facilities, sleeping accommodation etc of the opposite sex) be the information source for your children, either directly, or indirectly through their infiltration of schools or organisations is madness.

Scouting Ireland has a deeply troubled past that it is still grappling with. To be aligning with a group which advocates for the abandonment of sex-based child protection measures shows really poor judgment. SI is genuinely inclusive and its membership looks to me like it has more than your average number of neurodiverse children (who the research shows to be more susceptible to GI than neurotypical children). They have marched in Pride for years so there's nothing new about LBG inclusivity. This is not about LGB inclusivity. This is about child safeguarding and SI's alignment with a group and a policy that runs roughshod over it.

Kids can understand that there are LGB people who are out in the world getting on with their lives without having to be turned into child activists. They have a right to be able to live their childhoods as children without the expectation that they take on adult activism (in all its forms). Is it a wonder child/teen mental health is at an all time low?

It clearly says permissions must be obtained in bold italics. It also states the opposite sex sharing with trusted friends., so reasonable interpretation would assume this isn't an issue of your daughter's don't have a trusted friend who asks and you don't give permission,🤷‍♀️

Can you please share what extra information you found as according to Scouting Ireland Facebook page 10 grouos are chosen to be "taught" about the rainbow award which will facilitate the roll out to local groups. It does not say it's for leaders only. Please link your info!

Are you affiliated with Scouting Ireland? Are you are a supporter of boys in girls private spaces. Absolutely parents should be informed & I would absolutely be one of those "non-supportive" parents that Scouting Ireland have in italics! I would actually raise hell if they approached me regarding this & would contact safeguarding myself on behalf of my children.

@Nonpoliticalmum The school in Tralee was originally going to have only mixed sex toilets. This was decided without reference to the parents. However a compromise solution was found , after the inevitable row. There will be one boys 🚻 one girls 🚻 and one mixed 🚻 now afaik. That was the last I heard anyway. If so it means that in practice there are 2 boys toilets and 1 girls. The local TD is Minister for Education, Norma Foley. It beggars belief really.

No, I am not affiliated with Scouts. I have issues with it's religious and abusive past, if anything.

As I have said I have answered what are now coming across as accusing questions. I am simply a parent who appears to be alone on appreciating factual information not ranting on Facebook.

I would assume the roll out is the inclusion aspect I haven't seen the material and I assume neither have you. I am sure Scouting Ireland did, perhaps if you ask they won't provide the detail?

The belong to website explains about the badge. It states it is based around awareness inclusivity and is offered in youth work settings. I don't understand the word grouos, is that an age group, ,?

Why would there be a safeguarding issue? If your child was a close friend who says they are trans and the issue arises you would be asked. You simply say no, other parents may say yes that is their choice. This could be simply be their siblings of a different sex for example.

Just googled. That's the 'compromise ' as of March 23 according to RTE. Gaelcholáiste Chiarraí will have up to 600 students. I wish my kids could have gone to a Gaelscoil. But I wouldn't put a daughter through this nonsense. It's hard enough being a teenage girl.

Can you link this as I cannot find it on their website. I can only see the Rainbow Award reference on their facebook page.
I cannot have a Facebook rant as Scouting Ireland have the comments turned off underneath the rainbow award post!! They also have the comments turned off under the pride post! Why is this I wonder??

To be fair the department have said it is up to the school. 🤷‍♀️In our new secondary we were given guidelines which said there has to be a plan for a person who doesn't want to use their sex toilet.

A solution was worked out by the teens and agreed by the parents (boys, girls, and unassigned own doors).

Yet the local, nothing to do with the school were up in arms about there being no girls safe zone. Moral of the story don't believe everything you read on Facebook.

@Marblessolveeverything can you please link or screenshot the information you read on Scouting Irelands website regarding the Rainbow Award. I cannot locate it only the facebook post.

Well given your inaccurate comments here, which you have yet to acknowledge is it any surprise they turn off comments!

Here is the link:
https://www.belongto.org/support-for-someone-else/in-the-community/the-rainbow-award/#:~:text=This%20accreditation%20programme%20supports%20a,National%20Policy%20Framework%20for%20Children.

By the by I have yet to see anyone link to the "don't tell your parents" etc, is it actually on their website? Or is that misinformation?

I wasn't on scouting Ireland website I was on belong to it is a digital badge for them. Now I am off to work.

I really suggest some of you take a look at some of the websites to actually confirm what organisations are really saying as opposed to what is reported on an.

What do the abuse cases in Scouting Ireland have to do with it? You mentioned them in your OP.

@ConnieCounter I suppose it shows a lack of judgement when it comes to child protection

2 groups collaborating, one with history of csa and one currently lobbying to remove safeguarding for females and teens will give a lot of parents pause.

A lot of us have been reading about this for a long time now @Marblessolveeverything and with growing concern.

I'm not talking about social media posts.
I'm talking about serious medical concerns regarding trans ideology and how the aims of activists have become so accepted as best practice - often because people have been called bigots or cancelled if they object.

The problem is that at least some of the activists' aims are not evidenced based. They are not medically sound. They can be harmful towards women and children in particular. Exceptionally harmful in some cases.

The Cass report has been in the news a lot recently. Have you read it? Because, with respect, I feel you are the one who is under-informed here.

You're taking an awful lot on trust. Trust that has not been earned.

The Tralee story was in mainstream media. Even RTÉ carried it , not exactly a hotbed of right-wing conservatism. Fwiw I don't think Norma Foley et al are part of some conspiracy to trans our children. They are just clueless and disconnected.

My sentiments exactly. Also as a parebt who pays membership this was not passed onto parents for their feedback. It is a controversial collaboration & one I don't want my children to be a part of.

@Toosweetfan I haven't read the report, I do intend to.

What I do see is inaccuracies when challenged and proved as not factual ignored.

And that unfortunately accompanied by the continued questions "to catch some out" are frustrating and unhelpful.

I clearly set out to the op my thinking. My only agenda is being a parent of teen and pre teen, a tiny amount of volunteering with secondary school so wanting to know their challenges and my own personal interest in ensuring sign posting to MH supports for teens. That is it. I do have extended family involved in Pride, they hold a variety of views.

I am trying to work my way to understanding the facts but I continue to be baffled to see how having open discussion can disimprove situations. At the very worst everyone walks away disagreeing.

The problem is people are not open to listening they are basically saying it's this way or you are actively endangering their children, that is not factual and it creates a place of fear. Fear doesn't facilitate learning. And right now everyone of any opinion needs to be in learning mode.

I find the blame of trans issue as a MH impact as frustrating. The statistics and experiences of the MH professionals are clearly saying the key issues are lack of timely access to support, under diagnosis of MH serious issues, social isolation, a world where their childhood had a pandemic and a war in Europe as well as other awful things.

Absolutely agree. @Marblessolveeverything as a mother of girls I have been following the trans movement in Ireland & the UK very closely & I wouldn't dream of letting any organisation who believe & advocate for children to be allowed to medically transition near my children.
As a parent it my right to protect them. I do not agree with this collaboration & yes you should read the Cass report.

I am trying to work my way to understanding the facts but I continue to be baffled to see how having open discussion can disimprove situations. At the very worst everyone walks away disagreeing.

The problem is people are not open to listening they are basically saying it's this way or you are actively endangering their children, that is not factual and it creates a place of fear. Fear doesn't facilitate learning. And right now everyone of any opinion needs to be in learning mode.

But you could be describing the trans advocacy groups there? They have not been open to listening. Those who disagreed with them have been shut down. Called names. Cancelled.
They believe gender affirmation is the way to go. So once a child says they're trans that should be accepted as fact and every effort made to accommodate that. No qustion of the possibility that a child is confused. Those who propose slowing down and investigating what's going on with the child are accused of conversion therapy.
I'm not talking specifically about BelongTo but in general. Trans advocacy groups have not been open to discussion. The opposite in fact. Listen to what the doctors are saying please.

I would need to see a huge change in BelongTo's position and policy regarding children (which at the moment is gender affirmation) before thinking this sort of collaboration a good idea.

Well @Nonpoliticalmum I hope you read the report more closely than the scouting information on trans children. Or the information on the badge being for leaders to support inclusion?

Are you going to acknowledge your inaccurate posting? This is the issue I have with threads, the inaccuracies and scaremongering.

I have said I will read the report and I will but I would suggest you read the website of the organisation before you continue with your inaccuracies.

The issue is a lack of safeguarding. Any charity that believes people are exactly who they say they are should not be influencing safeguarding procuredures especially where children are involved.

Barretstown is a wonderful charity, however they allow TY students to sleep in a dorm that matches their gender identity.

They are upfront about it at least. There doesn't seem to be a choice for those that object to this policy, other than withdrawing your teenager.