Referendum!

[springbrigid]

Anyone inclined to give an opinion? I am leaning towards a yes/no vote, the yes to remove what I see as sexist language in the constitution, the no because the government are so appalling in terms of providing services and rights to disabled citizens and I feel the clause is paternalistic and pushes care on families yet again

The whole EU thing is a red herring, we can make our laws, we just don't, it's easier to be lazy and blame EU.

EU becomes the bad guy

But even in the last,say, 2 years, PBP Solidarity Lab are practically invisible compared to what they were. I'm definitely politically homeless right now. I suppose I should just count my lucky stars that I'm not actually homeless.

@Dublincailin unfortunately we're getting billions in funding from the EU. We were in recession not so long ago now suddenly we have all this money... We are basically a small little fish in a big pond, funded by the EU...
Ultimately O Gorman, McEntee, Varadkar etc want big jobs in Brussels so will happily sell us down the "progressive" river to get what they want..

Same. I have no allegiance to any party. It's independents for me or the odd candidate who actually does trojan work in the constituency.

@VoteNONO, but that's to do with the European Union job.

Nothing stopping them from making laws which work for us.

I reckon their ilk wouldn't be any more principled were we not tethered to the EU though. It'd be the same shit but on a parochial scale.

But they'll want to be seen by the head honchos in Europe as doing "progressive" work in their home country..

How did it get to this, it feels like it is one big party in agreement but sitting across from each other?

Well it was really only the treaty that divided them wasn't it? They both had the same values.

Sinn Féin are no different either. I'm very disappointed that Mary Lou & the Sinn Féin TDs all openly said they didn't agree with the language used in either act. Yet still advocated for a yes vote.
They really should have used their position as opposition to advocate for No based on the weak, ambiguous language but they still chose to endorse a yes vote.
Aontú & many of the independents were the only opposition. Peadar Tóibín said tonight they are advocating No due to the proposed language.
Sinn Féin were not happy with the language used either but ultimately carried on to campaign for a yes.

Hes running in the Europeans with the intention of him getting a seat and then running in the general too. So if he succeeds in both he'll get to put someone else in his European seat. I think its a misstep because its bad optics and also means Aontu has no one in the Dail from the Europeans to the general.

Irish politics needs some proper right wing opposition, we're completely out of balance. Wish someone would bring back a party like the PDs. I like some of what Peadar Tobin says but I wouldn't vote for Aontu while hes still pursuing pro-life nonsense, the referendum on that is done.

@miri1985 yes he is articulate, factual & can really stick it to the government. You are completely correct re his pro life crusade, it's pointless now & the referendum passed.

There is plenty more he good he can do by challenging the status quo the way he has been in the build up to Friday.

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/sinn-fein-to-campaign-yes-yes-in-referenda-despite-imperfect-care-amendment-1591362.html

This is relation to Sinn Féin. They had serious reservations about the wording of both acts yet still proceeded to campaign for a yes vote.

If they had any doubts at all & especially as they are in opposition they should have campaigned for a No vote.

They have gone down ever further in my my estimation after this. It was spineless & virtue signalling.

Just watched the debates on tv.
Peadar Tóibín is looking more attractive by the second😁

@miri1985 pointed out we need good right wing opposition to balance us out again.
Personally I feel the pendulum has just swung too far left & no party is bothered about bringing it closer to the centre again except Peadar & Aontú. He did very well tonight!

The No campaign finished very strongly this week. I wonder if it will make a difference. I think it's going to be very close!

Steady on 😂

🤣

I think the political parties and some progressive people nailed their colours to their mast straight away and then felt like they couldn't roll back on their position. On the care ammendment particularly, there wasn't any kind of movement for a "no" in more woke circles until FLAC put out their statement, that seemed to give other organisations and people permission to also say no. Tom Clonan, Catherine Connolly and other people had voiced their opposition beforehand but people didn't seem to pay any attention and still felt like the only socially acceptable posititon was to vote yes. I note people like Ruth Coppinger, changed theirs from yes/yes to yes/no after it was socially acceptable.

I think SF wouldn't have supported yes/yes if FLAC had put out their statement earlier. Its not as if they did much campaigning, so I'm sure if it does go no/no they'll claim it as a win that people want them in power to rerun the referedums

"The No campaign finished very strongly this week. I wonder if it will make a difference. I think it's going to be very close!"

@VoteNONO I can't decide if I'm in an echo chamber or what but I haven't met anyone IRL who is voting yes for both of these.

I keep wondering who they're polling because the polls are very strongly in favour. Any of my friends/family I've talked to who would have voted for marriage ref, repeal the 8th are voting no/no, one is voting yes/no

Oh okay, if I must 😂
Really nice to hear a td talking sense on this issue and he was very articulate in fairness to him, very strong.
I'm sick of the crowd in government. As a carer I'd be very upset by a yes vote.

I don't understand why the Family Carers Ireland group are pushing for a yes. I think they see it as a first step to recognition of carers while I see it as a deliberate avoidance of government obligation to both disabled people and carers. If you look at their Facebook page they are getting a LOT of complaints so I'm not sure how well they're representing their members overall.

Norma claimed the government restricted the wording to family because that's what the Article wording talks about now, it doesn't go outside family. Yeah, right.

When asked if the proposed wording was a lost opportunity Peadar said it wasn't, it was a dodged opportunity. Couldn't have put it better.

Yes, Peadar was very good. He was also very good a couple of weeks back on Upfront.
I think that, while I disagree with a lot of his politics, they are sincerely held. He isn't afraid to voice an unpopular view.
SF, on the other hand, seem to be more cynical in their approach. It is all about the optics with them, while, in my opinion, there is still a whiff of sulphur lurking beneath.
I agree with @VoteNONO if they had strong reservations about the wording then, as the main opposition party, they should have looked for a no no vote. Once a yes yes vote passes we are stuck with the proposed wording for, most probably, our lifetimes. That really isn't good enough.
Have SF featured in any of the debates or any newspaper article?

@Ceirseach

I would need to Chech but my feeling is NGO and DECIDY funding.

They know it's a disaster for carers but live to fight another day. There could also be a bigger picture that they are going to campaign for next year in elections.

and surely carers realise that when they wake up on Saturday morning, nothing has changed, they will still be begging for hoists, they will still be begging for home help,

Nothing will have changed, there will still be no money invested.

I pray at the minimum the no for care vote wins.

The same. And everyone I've spoken to have been saying it's just too vague for them to support.
They don't understand the language.
I gather from online that many are voting no purely from an anti government stance.
My dh was undecided until the Primetime referendum, he's now No No after Martin's brutal showing. He wouldn't watch last night's debate as his mind is made up now!

SF will claim it as the people spoke government should have used original suggested language from peoples assembly.

They will claim that's what they would have used and it would have passed.

She already plans to rerun if it's a no, but things change and I don't think she will be the next Taoiseach, taniste (sp) I am seeing a FF SF government.

MM has shown he will jump into bed with anyone to be in government.

I see One Parent Family are telling people to vote yes. Argh.