Dublin Stabbings

[honeyrider]

Five people stabbed including 3 young children near a school in Dublin today. I hope they'll be ok.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41275768.html

The mid nineties were not a good time in Ireland. I moved from a city in England to rural Ireland as a child in the early 1990s . It was a nightmare. Ireland was so completely lacking in any diversity at the time that I honestly think that it made the local people extremely small minded and to be honest , extremely strange. They seemed to have no concept of a life outside of Ireland.

I remember going to a catholic primary school. I had to sit there in the class through hours of learning Catholic prayers. The teacher knew I wasn't catholic and she still made me learn all the Catholic prayers in class.

So much of primary school time was devoted to one religion. That is not education. At the time the children seemed to have no concept that other religions or people of no religion existed. The Catholic children in that school just knew about protestant religion ,and they were told that protestant religion was evil.

I remember saying to a child at the school "I'm not any religion , my parents didn't make me any religion" and she looked at me and said "but then you can't exist".

It was total brainwashing by the Catholic church. They believed that Catholicism was the one correct religion and everyone else was evil. That is not normal.

Before going to that school in Ireland , I had lived in a big city in England. In the school I went to there was not much emphasis on religion. I think we had one class a week on the different religions in the world. The main focus was on English, history, maths etc.

The shock then of moving to an Irish rural school at about 7.

Link to online news story about the attacker. I think it will be in the Irish DM tomorrow. Revealed: Suspect in Dublin stabbing was charged with knife possession in May this year... but never convicted | Daily Mail Online

Has anyone heard how the little girl and her carer are doing now? Also the other little girl?
Praying they'll be okay.

I do think that because Ireland was lacking in diversity for a long time that it made the people become a bit small minded in Ireland.

I remmeber going to secondary school on Ireland in the 1990s.

798 teenagers in the school were white Irish Catholic from the surrounding villages. We had one mixed race boy who was half Irish /half African. And there was one white Romanian girl.

Of the white irish students , every single one of them was catholic. As it was a catholic school there was more huge emphasis on catholic religion in the school.

Religion and education should always be separate. Religion is not an education

The Catholic church caused a huge, huge amount of damage in Ireland.

People were afraid to stand up to them.

Even now.

I take issue with your notion that people had no idea about life outside Ireland at that time. That's just totally incorrect. I absolutely agree with you regarding schools. The pace of introduction of non religious schools is disgraceful, but i suppose that's because people aren't really that bothered at the end of the day? When my daughter was starting school, we had a crowd of non religious randomers campaigning for a non religious school, we did everything ourselves. It was like 'make your own school'. It has moved on a bit, but not much tbh.

Labelling anyone who is concerned about immigration as far right is exactly how the UK ended up with Brexit in 2016 and a huge Tory majority in 2019.

To clarify, I don't mean that they had no concept that a world existed outside of ireland. Like obviously they knew that England and America etc existed.

I meant that they couldn't seem to understand that other people had lives that weren't exactly like theirs.

For example when I was in primary school, they couldn't understand that I was not any religion. To them it seemed totally impossible, because they had only ever been around catholic children.

Yes thankfully there are a few more non religious schools in the cities in Ireland now. However I'm looking at the area that I grew up in - and I'm looking at all the surrounding towns and village near me - the vast majority of primary schools still seem to be catholic schools.

I get a feeling that the Garda Commissioner, and Government will be under a lot of pressure now that the perpetrator has been identified as mentally ill in relation to previous knife and other crimes. He was not convicted due to evidence of mental health issues, but was allowed to return to his accommodation and attack again. The results of this were horrific.

The SH one T will hit the fan big time now I think. Nothing to do with the man's ethnicity, nationality or race either, just judicial weakness and lack of mental health supports on behalf of the State really. The revolving door.

Parnell Square stabbing attack: Suspect had been arrested earlier this year (msn.com)

One of the big differences is that we have no credible party who would represent that view. Our proportional representation rather than the UK 2/3 party system would make it very hard for that kind of response to gain traction.

I'm Irish living abroad and trying to see what's happening here. The press info coming out from Ireland seems a bit muddled. No further stabbing info and were the thugs all right wing? I got the sense they were from socially disaffected backgrounds and jumping on this.
Helen McEntee seems out of her depth since the violent incidents in the summer. Had a read of her bio and can't quite see why she's achieved. Do those of you in Ireland think she will have to resign?

I think the Garda Commissioner will have to go, he’s tried a softly softly approach to policing protests and it’s completely backfired. Not sure what will happen with Helen McEntee, she does seem out of her depth.

I don't know what age you are, but i'm middle aged now, and have always been well up on international affairs. As were my friends. Obviously, it's all dependant on where you lived, and what your cohort was, but we're not all catholic backwards catholic hicks ya know?

Re schools, people are v suspicious still of the non catholic ones. And as i said, it takes work to start up a non catholic one. I've been quite amused actually that a good few of the parents in my daughter's class are killing themselves to get in to Catholic secondaries. It's a bit like ET was nice when they were small, but when shit gets real, they abandon their principles. But it is hard for people when there are so few options.

It does seem like it's been softly softly. I think we all hate tougher policing measures but safety for civilians is needed on the streets. This is par for the course in UK, France, Germany and no doubt many other countries also for civil order.

Why are people suspicious of non catholic schools. Education is much better in non religious schools.

Dont you remember all the sexual and child abuse in catholic church? Why would anyone want to send their child to a school ran by the catholic church. They are an abusive organisation.

Some catholic schools should exist in ireland as an option but no was should they be the biggest option.

Non religious schools should be the norm .

The Catholic church have caused so much damage in Ireland.

I was just chatting to an elderly man the other day. He said that when he was a young man , in his twenties - that Magdalene laundries were everywhere. There were loads of them .

He said that he was a tradesman and he used to go in and do work in the Magdalene laundries. The young women in there told them that they had been imprisoned for being raped and beconing pregnant.

He said that he thought this was awful and he went home and spoke to his mother about how bad it was. She said "she don't ever say that it's wrong again, if the local priest hears you talking like that we will be shunned in the community".

As I and a lot of other people know, The Catholic church did unspeakable cruelty and evil in ireland. I don't know why anyone would want to send their child to a catholic school.

Oh I've another story. When my own mother was aged ten she came down with polio and she had to go to a catholic hospital for a year. She was paralyzed for a long time by polio. Polio affected a lot of children in 1950s and 1960s in ireland.

She said she went into the hospital. Every child on her ward had polio and was severely ill. Catholic nuns ran the ward. My mother said that the nuns hit and slapped the sick children, shouted at them , forced them to eat food that had mould and was gone off. If a child vomited, the nun would make the child eat the vomit
She said the catholic nuns were horrifically cruel to the sick children.

We all know how cruel the catholic church has been to children. It is very well documented. I can't understand adults who would want to send their child to such a "religion".

@Mooshamoo I was lucky enough to be educated by some really lovely nuns. Some were a bit overly strict, some a bit mad, some were the best people I've ever known - or all three at once. It was a mix.

Indeed I was lucky. Without doubt some others did suffer terribly at the hands of the Catholic church. There were horrific institutional problems and they had way too much power in society. They did do good as well as evil though.

But things have changed a lot now I think. Catholic schools are mostly run by laypeople anyway and theý're not very religious and are more inclusive. Still a bit of a problem that they do the sacrament prep within school time but that will change I think. They do teach about other faiths now.

I was happy to send mine to the local Catholic secondaries because they were single sex and that was my preference. And my own experience at a Catholic school in the 80s was happy. I don't think I'm small minded as a result either...

@Notagainwellreally the point is there are still very few school options for non catholics.

I am in a village near a small town. 90% of the primary schools near me are catholic. There is one educate together school in a town that is quite a long way away from any of the villages/other towns and that school only has a couple of places. People cannot get their children into that school when they want to. I know because they have told me. The people who are not catholic have no option but to to send their children to catholic primary schools.

Even a lot of Irish people near me ,who have no interest at all whatsoever in the catholic religion, have told me that they have put their child through a catholic communion so she won't feel different in the all catholic schools

@Mooshamoo

Nowadays there is no obligation to partake in religious education in any school. You can if you wish, or can sit it out elsewhere. There is such a dominance of Catholic schools, and a huge diverse population now that once strictly Catholic schools have had to adapt.

I agree, but i also think choice is important. IMO, the lack of choice is the problem atm. But people don't want change enough to demand it, so the current system will continue. And really, most schools are grand, but the religious aspect is very annoying. My DD will be going into secondary next year, and it seems likely/possible that she'll end up in a religious school. I'm confident that she's had a grounding in atheism, and she can make her own mind up now. But quite frankly, it's mad that there are no non religious schooling options.

I moved with my parents from England to Ireland in the mid 70s and went to 2 convent secondary schools after three years in a secular English school. I was not raised religious, although my parents were both from Catholic backgrounds. The family didn't attend mass - the schools knew that. Nobody was critical, nobody 'othered' me. There were a few protestant girls in the small-town school, also a few girls from non-religious backgrounds. I can't remember anyone remarking on it or criticising it - in contrast to the lively ongoing criticisms of the church (often prompted by the most recent Late Late show discussions) in both the city and the small town convent schools. I fear you were just unlucky Mooshamoo - did you live near the border? I know some border communities were edgier.

In contrast the English school was snobbish, conformist and problematic in many ways - I knew girls there with anorexia and girls who cut themselves - none of that in the convent schools.

So it's the luck of the draw, I think. At a time when Ireland was 95% Catholic it was inevitable that school-based abuse would be mostly Catholic as well. Likewise the horrible situation of children in institutions - it wasn't that much better in the UK in the likes of Barnardos. But blaming the whole church community for the actions of some is like saying you won't let a child have swimming lessons because the appalling things that have happened in Irish swimming.

Wouldn't it make a lot more sense for the government to just make a lot of those catholic schools into non religious schools.

I think that the government still can't stand up to the Catholic church and are afraid of change.

.
Have there been any incidents of a catholic school being turned into a non denominational school.

Does the catholic church own catholic schools ?

Who funds catholic schools? Does anyone know. I don't know that.

Thanks for sharing your experience. No I didnt love near the border. I lived in Midlands Ireland. Think Offaly, Longford, Westmeath, lapis.
One of those counties. I went to a village catholic school. Did you go to school in a city in Ireland? Just that I thought that the schools in the cities might be a bit more progressive. If you went to a village school like me, then yes we just had different experiences. Probably some schools were better than others.

A city school for one year, a small town school for two years (in a county adjoining one on your list) - middle of the 1970s, as I said. A very tolerant and inclusive atmosphere in both, and acceptance of those with different religions or none. I think you were just unlucky.

Yes the church owns the Catholic schools so the government can't just decide to change their ethos. Nonetheless, some schools have changed ethos and I believe there are plans in place for more, endorsed by the church who recognise things need to change.

My DC are in school across the border but I understand that the time given to religion and preparation for the sacraments is much less than when we were growing up, as well as the education about other faiths including non Christian faiths.

Around here, the most diverse schools are the Catholic ones.

I think there's actually a scheme to remove schools from the church. The name escapes me now of course 🙄 and you're being disengenuous asking who funds Catholic schools. You know who funds them. By all means, have an opinion, but don't be a dick. It's a waste of everyone's time.

The point is there are still very few school options for non catholics.

Yes I agree with you there @Mooshamoo but that wasn't the only point you made I think? For example, you also said education was much better in non religious schools.

The church owns most of the original school buildings and the land they are on still, although there have been very significant investments by the government into improving and adding to the schools so I'm not sure of the legal situation there.