Coronavirus ROI/NI number 4

[eggandonion]

I don't believe it, would it ever go away!

Completely agree, it's really stressful and unfair to have constant kite flying and mixed messages from different agencies.

And while I much prefered Leo and Simon's delivery of the message, they now need to back the hell out and leave it to the current team. Their proclamations look like sniping and undermining and only make the wider community feel even more unsettled.

The constant announcements/leaks are really starting to get on my nerves. NPHET should meet with government officials behind closed doors, discuss their thoughts & findings and make their recommendations. Then government officials should discuss and decide course of action.

Abso-fucking-lutely. That’s how advisors work in the civilised world.

This carry on is totally unacceptable. Tony is so far over the line on this it’s appalling (assuming the leaks are coming from him which, would stack up).

The shit is going to fly when Leo next gets in a room with him.

The NPHET reco did not include closing schools, for info.

They can’t hang working parents out to dry like that again. With absolutely no other childcare options available.

The skittishness of it all is unacceptable too. For gods sake give some time for measures to have an impact. We’re all reeling from the no visitors, then not 48 hours later we’re back to level 5 panic again. It’s insane.

The NPHET reco did not include closing schools, for info.

No, I know that. But I would understand teachers striking if that were to be the case.

It's all a mess - there isn't even a suitable emoji on Mumsnet to convey this!!

But I would understand teachers striking if that were to be the case.

Another excellent reason for the government to resist a move to level 5.

there isn't even a suitable emoji on Mumsnet to convey this!!

Yeah. I can only offer this. 🤯

There appears to be a bit of a power struggle between NPHET and the Gov now.

That should never happen but it appears to be so. Feck the lot of them, they should be looking out for us, not who will be right or top dog, whatever.

Sick of it. And the tweaking of the levels too. No one has a clue as to what to do or not now. But I do realise most people will use common sense. Hopefully.

Nphet is an enormous entity, if you look at who is on it, and quite Male!

Jobs for the boys, how many are epidemiolists?

I wasn't a huge FG supporter but it's becoming clear that a rainbow coalition isn't really the ideal when dealing with a global crisis 🤦🏼‍♀️

Our health service is shocking and a total embarrassment. It’s a small country with a small population, it really shouldn’t be this difficult to manage. It’s like so many things in Ireland though, totally mismanaged. Loads of plp working in admin in the hse doing fkall in safe jobs with great salaries. Do not even get me started on local authority...
When I tell plp from other countries in Europe that despite paying high taxes , I still pay 50 euros to see a gp every-time and pay prescriptions!! No other country in Europe is like this , your tax covers your health care ffs !! No wonder so many plp here work on the black , honestly I don’t blame them.

I am just beside myself tonight with worry over going to level 5. It is NOT ok to leak this on a Friday afternoon with no idea of when ( tomorrow is mooted) a decision is coming. The dithering , the non transparency of figures. What they actually mean ? A proper analysis of 100,000 test this week as opposed to 3-4000 a week 6 months ago will of course pick up more!! ..deaths are low TG we are doing well. Cases mean jot unless they are hosp admissions. 29 in icu and lockdown again. Sure January will be the same,then February. Fgs where is the money to pay the public sector??? -yes a large proportion comes in from retail vat and the private sector who are decimated!!! My kids are thrilled to be back in school.if the teachers strike let them be put on the PUP- not on full pay end of. Girls in our centra in town have been at the coal face from day one with no masks in the early days-

I'm so upset for friends in hospitality and brave entrepreneurs who stick their necks out to create local businesses and jobs facing catastrophe. My mum says if she was in icu with covid she wouldn't want people losing their jobs over her and we as a family agree. Locking down countries is a joke sure lockdown ends- hey presto another spike No freedoms at all anymore
.poor poor elderly on their own
Special needs adults no services!families at breaking point.

I'm nearly on the point of just so worn out at the mismanagement of this crisis and the helplessness I feel.. We were all so horrified at the scenes from bergamo.it was a new infectious disease ,8 months later. No prep for winter surge . No protection of our elderly in NH. No money left for anything .my kids will continue in school and I'm praying they stay open. We are both working parents and need this. Our kids need it. So happy to be back
It's all just so so wearing. Talked to people today more worried about jobs and society than covid a disease with a 99.6 % survival rate. Why no well done from the govt to all the people abiding. Elderly not out of houses for 6 months. But no negativity central. Tony holohan our saviour ( unelected ) dont make me laugh or I'll cry

I agree, there is no need to leak information. Dont report until you have a clear story not if we go to level 4 or level 5 this is what it'll look like. I want facts, I want to know if schools and childcare will remain open because under l.5 it basically says subject to advice.
I hope they do, I have just got the children settled and into a routine( I work in Early years) I dont want everything upset again.
Likewise though i dont want to put myself or others at risk. Normally I'm asleep by now but my head is wrecked and my chocolate supply for next week is almost gone.

Schools need to remain open... The last thing we need in 10 years time is an uneducated generation heading into a globalised jobs market... However I respect that at the current time saving lives should be the upmost priority

The stress of all this will have worse long term health effects on the country than the bloody virus.

When I tell plp from other countries in Europe that despite paying high taxes , I still pay 50 euros to see a gp every-time and pay prescriptions!! No other country in Europe is like this , your tax covers your health care ffs !! No wonder so many plp here work on the black , honestly I don’t blame them.

This isn't quite true everywhere, though. I lived 43 years in Germany and they have a very complicated health system with many avenues to care, none of them covered by tax (unless you are on benefits).

In the German system employees pay public health insurance and this is based on your income, your employer paying half. There's also a self-employed system, or for employees with higher income, with private insurance based on your age. And then there's the civil service system -- I won't go into the details, it's VERY complicated! I've been in all three systems.

When I moved to Ireland I was already retired but I also had income from self-employment. Moving within the EU as a retiree means you are covered by your original system. So I was still in the German public system, but because I'm also self employed and still have income, my contributions were calculated according to that income and I had to pay €470 a month!

It did mean I could have all treatment in Germany with their top notch health care, and in 2018 I had a hip replacement there which was fully covered, including three weeks in a rehabilitation clinic on the Baltic Sea, which was fabulous.

But for the future it meant I'd be paying €470 monthly to get HSE treatment which I already recognised as very inferior to German treatment. I had a medical card.

But I was told there was no way I could cancel my German insurance. I'd have to pay it for the rest of my life. That's how it works for EU retirees. There was absolutely no way out of it.

However I found a way out. I had gone abroad for three months in 2018 and that gave me the right to cancel, which I did.

So now I'd actually be quite happy to pay €50 per doctor visit; it's certainly less than I was paying the Germans!

I got Irish private insurance which is much cheaper than German private insurance. I returned my medical card.

Sorry this turned out to be so long. I just wanted to offer a comparison to another system.

My boss' daughter works part time and her boss is now ill with confirmed covid. She is fine but has been off school and isolating at home waiting to be tested. She has had no call from the test & trace people and her GP practice has say they can't refer her for a test as she has to wait to be contacted! They'd refer her if she has symptoms. My boss is tempted to lie and say she now has symptoms just so she can be tested. The whole family are on tender hooks waiting, she wants to go back to school (6th year) and it's been 5 days now! When she does get a test it will be 2 more days til she gets a result. So clearly this test & trace system is not adequate. Why didn't the government sort this out?? My boss and family are being as careful and responsible as they can but I can see why some people just wouldn't wait that long, especially when nobody feels ill. And I'd say this is just going to happen over and over until - when? Next year?? It's hard not to feel really despondent about it all.

@TheKeatingFive

The skittishness of it all is unacceptable too. For gods sake give some time for measures to have an impact. We’re all reeling from the no visitors, then not 48 hours later we’re back to level 5 panic again. It’s insane.

Absolutely

That is worrying to hear that the track and trace system may not be sufficiently able to respond. I saw a report earlier where some residents in one town couldn't wait for the HSE testing and brought in a private service instead.

In my family we are effectively operating as per level 5 irrespective of what decision the Government make. We had been doing so previously and have restricted ourselves again in the last couple of weeks. With both adults in the highest risk category, the risk of one or both of us going down with Covid, and not being available, is what keeps us feeling inclined to lie low. Working and studying from home is doable for now, colleges are online and we don't have school going children at this point, so it is mostly manageable, while not ideal of course.

I know not everyone can do this, those who need to go out to work and school and provide care for for others for example. It's been easier for DH and myself since we aren't doing very much all that differently, except for not going out for work and shopping. However, I can see my DS is really struggling with not being able to see his friends and this is impacting on him greatly, but the fact is he couldn't do that in any event within the current restrictions, as they are in other counties.

I do wonder though about what it may take this time around for enough people to get behind whatever level is decided, for however long. It's not like March when it did feel like we were all in it together and it seemed like the Government and health advisors were at one and on message. Now, with more people challenging aspects of guidance, rightly or wrongly, I would worry about just how much cohesion there will be in terms of a collective response. I just hope my concerns are unfounded.

www.irishtimes.com/opinion/jack-lambert-lockdowns-can-be-avoided-but-here-are-10-things-we-need-to-do-1.4382748

This is a great article, we should be listening to this guy.

He makes an excellent point that the debate is being dominated by those already in the ‘inner circle’. Their response has been woeful. Time to open it up to people who are thinking smartly.

Leo is out and about in his new job, maybe he is slightly listening? Luke is hopeful of the Pfizer vaccine pretty soon.

@LifeInAHamsterWheel unfortunately though as a close contact of someone who tests positive your boss's daughter has to self isolate for 14 days regardless. A negative test result doesn't mean she can go back to school any sooner than the 14 days unfortunately as she is still in the incubation period.

It is a shambles at how long it is taking track and trace to contact people so they at least know they could potentially be spreading the illness.

That's a great article @TheKeatingFive thank you

I wasn't aware of that @Smurf123 there must be an awful lot of people on 2-week isolation all over the country!