So what becomes of the Ulster rugby players now?

[Yeaididthat]

Not guilty. So will they be back on the pitch or are their lives blighted forever by this?

@Noname9 so if a woman says no to him he still thinks it's ok to have sex with her because surly she wants it's as all those other girls do? Is that what you are saying?

NoName I really don't see how your story has any bearing on this case!

So @Noname9 all women are to blame because they are offering it on a plate to your friend. So poor little rugby boys obviously got confused cos of all the attention they get. Ok I feel sorry for them. Im glad they got found not guilty! Maybe the woman should take all silly little women who offer it on the plate to famous people to court instead!
You might as well say 'well if she was wearing a skirt she was asking for it'
I am actually appaulled!
I am hoping I got the wrong end of the stick reading your post

Sigh
I really am going to give up with mumsnet. I absolutely didn’t say that anyone deserved to be raped, what happened was justified etc. I guess there are two camps - camp one is the prevailing camp which is that men are evil, they are just born that way, the toxic masculinity and explosion in male violence is all down to men, it’s their problem not women’s etc. I do wonder how on earth this camp square away the fact that they have sons too?? And with the sheer numbers of men involved in these unwanted behaviours, you’d have thought there would be room for debate that this might be a societal issue rather than just a male issue but presumably the unsaid part is that you are all superior females who bring up your sons better than the rest of us. Or camp two that thinks that toxic masculinity and all its associated evils is societal issue - contributed to by both men and women and we need to look at why BOTH women and men fetishise rich/famous/powerful/utter bastard behaviour in men to such the extent we clearly do? Because if you think that these rugby players have never behaved in the way they did before - that they don’t behave like this every weekend since they have found women willing to be treated in this way for the ‘chance’ or ‘hope’ that they get to hang round the money/game/influence then you are staggering naive.

I’m firmly in camp two. Clearly in the minority. Oh well

OK, so assuming this friend of yours has countless women throwing themselves at him in the street...

1. are you saying he is reasonably justified in assuming all women will consent to sex and he doesn't need to check for consent? Bearing in mind there are degrees of consent and that someone might be happy with one thing but not another? E.g. Happy with oral sex, not concenting to sex without a condom...

2. how warped is this kind of man's opinion of sex (and ability) that anything less than enthusiastic participation is acceptable to him?

Of course these men did this frequently. I've brushed up against rugby types here before and the arrogance is striking.

The point is, this woman did not consent. It doesn't matter if hundreds before her did.

they have found women willing to be treated in this way for the ‘chance’ or ‘hope’ that they get to hang round the money/game/influence
Women are free to choose to do whatever they want as long as they have given their consent.

Not all men are rapists! Mu DP is extremely good looking! I offered it so easily to him when I met him (shamefully)
He waited for 6 weeks of seeing each other before he even considered anything!
All men are responsible for understanding sexual consent and respect! Not all men ignore it! Those who do are scum of the earth! But in no way does anybody on here say that all men are potential rapists! These idiots give men a bad name!
No woman deserves to be raped, even if she was acting 'slutty' offering it on a plate and then changing her mind!
Even if these men have women wanting sex with them, how can they not understand that not every woman would be interested in them and to ignore her wishes. What planet do you live on?
How is this any woman's responsibility.
I have 3 DDs - no sons, and I would challenge any man to dare say to me 'well I get women throwing themselves at me all the time she must have wanted it' I would annihilate them!

I actually feel I am missing the point if your posts @Noname9 as I can't believe anybody could be that stupid!

I don't recognise the two camps that you think you have identified, Noname9. Like every other feminist I'm friends with, I have lots of wonderful men in my life who I love and trust. And I'm raising my sons to understand that the way to tell if someone consents (to anything, including sex) is enthusiasm. If that makes me superior in your eyes then so be it; to me it's just common sense.

Same Somer I'll never understand why people think feminists are man haters when it's feminists who point out men can be decent human beings and equal partners in a relationship.

well of course male violence is down to men, who else?
and yes, we are trying to raise our sons to be better men, and succeeding too

I guess there are two camps - camp one is the prevailing camp which is that men are evil, they are just born that way, the toxic masculinity and explosion in male violence is all down to men, it’s their problem not women’s etc. ...
Or camp two that thinks that toxic masculinity and all its associated evils is societal issue - contributed to by both men and women

No, you have this backward. The prevailing view on here (and anywhere else I've had this conversation) is that male violence and this shitty, entitled view of women are products of a patriarchal society. Rape culture, in other words. Both men and women uphold this culture but for different reasons. Male violence is a male responsibility, though: we are each responsible for our own actions.

I don't at all recognise the "men are born evil" nonsense as anything other than a straw man. It is commonly put forward by MRAs as part of their general misogyny, however, along with claims that feminism has gone too far and that its women's job to stop men being violent. Funny, that

"Sigh"?

Noname9, really? Do you think you've said something very wise and enlightening?

It's hardly revolutionary that there's women who find successful men attractive and they want to have sex with them. This is totally fine. Once they are having the sex they want. What it doesn't mean though, there being many women who like to have sex with your friend is that he doesn't assume all women want to have sex with him. He should understand the woman he wants to have sex with or he is having sex with want to do want he is doing.

The point is that men should confirm consent not assume it. Women should too, but the balance of power isn't usually that way round.

Irrelevant is the word I'd have used noname. Bemusingly so.

Anyway, I expect what's going to happen to Paddy Jackson in the near future is pursuing an incredibly ill advised defamation case and looking like a complete tit. There seem to have been a lot of photos of him blacked up been circulated in the last few days, which always does a lot for a person's image. The sponsors must be queuing up.

Can someone give a recap?
All the articles today assume a lot of knowledge

@GreyGauntlet www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/inside-court-12-the-complete-story-of-the-belfast-rape-trial-1.3443620?mode=amp

I was expecting it too.I was out for dinner with 9 other women and only two of us felt what happened was disgrace. The rest blamed her.
I was also in hospital for a day procedure and the junior doctor was early twenties.
She had zero sympathy for her said this sort of thing happens all the time I am 40 and she said going out now is different. ...
So based on that I am happy that there is a public outcry I was starting to think I was in a parallel universe.

Not come across anyone who thought she brought it on herself. Work with one woman who said it looked like a set up right at the start. But now she's horrified at how the woman was treated and the trial went.

There was a newspaper article yesterday saying there are planned rallies being arranged in Australia and USA too in protest. The twitter and FB campaigns are in full force to stop the reinstatement on the rugby teams. It has really escalated over the week so it will be interesting to see how it will pans out.

Then of course the twatty comment from the Drogheda Unt player and Laois Gaa player.
Although I note it followed with a swiftly cobbled together apology and the club distancing themselves from it.
I hope the "buisness" of sport finally getting that misogyny is bad for buisness.There is some hope of it filtering down.

www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/ulster-rugby-trial-debate-continues-to-rage-on-social-media-after-verdicts-468866.html

Paddy Jacksons statement - too little too late.
Is this the same Paddy Jackson who came out of the courthouse all guns blazing threatening to sue commentators ?

I wonder how much of that statement is his family trying to save face. I'm sure the backlash took them all by surprise.

It's an attempt at a PR exercise, nothing more.

www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/paddy-jackson-s-apology-may-be-a-case-of-too-little-too-late-1.3453238
I think he really thought the whole country would be delighted he was found not guilty hence the statement at the courthouse. After seeing that they were far from delighted he had to rethink his strategy but now it just sounds so insincere.

What a nasty prat.

Also brings to light he knew she left distressed. Though I suppose it could be argued that awareness was from hindsight. Though he knew pretty soon after either way.

I think Paddy Jackson is so arrogant and without any self awareness that it never occured to him that there would be a big backlash against him. He and his family are after getting a major shock at the backlash especially the extent of it that he's now come out with this PR stunt so he can have a career but it's so insincere.

I also think Ulster Rugby and the IRFU are biding their time in the hope of it dying down. I think I'll contact their sponsors and express my disgust at these rugby players and their actions and that I'll boycott their products or services if these players play for Ulster Rugby or Ireland again.