To be depressed that were the only ones with a tiny place

[AleaEim]

I am just dumbfounded these days as everyone around me seems to be able to effortlessly afford big houses and multiple holidays a year. Two years ago, dh and I went through blood, sweat and tears to buy our tiny maisonette, we knew it was small but it was close to a station that gets us to London easily and we knew we couldn’t afford to move out further and then have to pay for expensive trains. We used all our savings for this place and even needed a small loan from MIL (retirement savings) which we now pay pack monthly on top of a mortgage. I’m now on mat leave and have zero disposable income, we both struggle to buy treats or a takeaway for a nice break. If something needs to be done to the house we need to use our credit cards, we are trying to build up our savings for emergencies but it’s so hard. Yesterday we went to a new couple friends house (we know them from NCT), we thought they were quite normal/ working class people and expected them to be living like us. I was wrong, their place was huge, with a huge garden, there was so much space, they also have been away on lots of trips this year. This is the same for the rest of the NCT group, we live in a relatively working class area so none of us are super wealthy but everyone seems to be doing better than us. We can barely afford to run our car. I think I find it depressing because we worked so hard to get this place, we had no inheritance or gifted money, we were proud of our place until we started to see what our friends were buying. One of my non NCT friends was complaining about her small four bed house recently, she has a huge place with a big garden in zone 4 London, she earns less than me but married quite wealthy 🥹 it makes me sick and I don’t know how to just overcome this. I know we should be grateful but it’s hard. I’m just envious that others seem to have been dealt a better hand than us, neither of our parents owned property so there’s no generational wealth at all.

Sorry big rant but feeling quite low today and it affected my sleep. In the grand scheme of things I know we are lucky.

I don't know if it will help from an older woman, but when I was married WE had the detached house in a nice area, plenty of disposable income, couple of dogs, able to afford holidays etc etc.

It wasn't a happy marriage and as much as I tried to make it work, it broke down eventually. I had friends at the time who lived in a tiny little place. He lost his job, they struggled financially for a very long time. They're still married now. Never moved out of their tiny little house. Very loving couple. Whereas I've been divorced for years (happily) and now also live in a small home.

The snapshot we see of other peoples lives is only the surface. Yes, most of us want the really nice, bigger home. But that isn't the important part of the picture. I'm going to sound all Walt Disney/Hallmark here, but love is what's important. If you have a good relationship and a happy home, THAT is what matters. It's what your children will remember as adults.

Yes agree with all of this.

This as well. Some people are happy living with huge amounts of debt. I had a friend (3 children) when my kids were young. Said she only ever made the minimum payment on everything. No intention of paying anything off. I couldn't comprehend living like that.

The mindset you have is one of jealousy and comparison. It's stealing your joy. My friends own their homes, which are big, beautiful, and all theirs. My situation is objectively not as good as theirs yet I am immensely proud of what I have and what I have achieved, because it's relative to me. They have what they have, I have what I have, and we all worked hard for it. I practise gratitude and I'm also really happy for others.

My situation could do with improvement and I focus on that instead of focusing on lamenting what I don’t have.

I think you would benefit from 1, practising gratitude for what you do have and pride for the fact that you built that, and 2, being happy for your friends instead of jealous. Your jealousy doesn't get you anywhere. Doesn't hurt them, doesn't help you. It's totally redundant and when you start feeling that way you should focus on how you are going to improve your situation instead. Refocus and it will become habit over time.

Self-development is energising.
Jealousy is exhausting.

Some people hit lucky and we don’t live in a meritocracy, wealth stays with wealth

that to me means we shouldn’t ( easier said than done ) envy and value things that money can buy - because they don’t reflect anything real. So they have foreign holidays but you can have a laugh with family and friends without that

do the best with the hand you are dealt. Enjoy yourself
Work hard to improve your own situation. Love your family. Laugh and play with them and see the real great things you possess

‘We have no inheritance or gifted money’
there you go
inless everyone in the family works in city finance top jobs it’s the only way

I have been on holiday paid for by family and to stay in friends villa paid for by points and a uk breakin term time is the only one I paid for myself, but I probably sound super glam to the other nursery people

nct is very expensive too and not a working class poor priority usually!

Ps I agree if you have a nice husband you have won the lottery

Living in a maisonette in a commuter town doing a doctorate and nct classes doesn’t sound all that working class either. There are many many people who’ll always be renting and never get on the property ladder with MIL help like you had. You won’t even need all the baby clutter for long and your earning’s will rise as you qualify, but if you’re studying and on mat leave course things are going to be tight. Sounds like you’re doing well and just met a comparatively wealthy person which will happen via the nct catchment. If you want to meet other mums, you’ll get a fuller range via local groups like stay and plays, then nursery and school.

It’s easy to get despondent when we compare.

Two things.

1 - I once saw a post on a forum where a woman discussed her very large, expensive house. She could afford it due to inheritance because she lost both parents at a young age, and said she would give up all her material wealth in a heartbeat to have her parents back.

2 - I have a friend who has a very low paid job and goes on several foreign holidays a year, whilst my husband and I, in professional roles, can only afford one, usually in the UK. After feeling resentful for a while I realised that we can only afford one because my expectations are higher and our holidays cost more, but also because we put a fair amount into our savings and pensions which my friend doesn’t. We could choose to go on more holidays, but would suffer the consequences 20 years from now with less financial security.

I am not dismissing your feelings that life isn’t fair (it definitely isn’t!) but I also think often there’s more to these situations than what we see on the surface. Your friends might be up to their eyes in debt to fund their lifestyle.

You say it’s hard to save, I agree, and for many years I didn’t even try to, just paid off debts. There was no spare cash to save at all after bills, until I reached my 40s. If you are saving anything at all then you are doing better than many.

Always amuses me the number of people of MN who insist it’s always generational wealth/bank of mum and dad to justify their own poor earnings. There’s plenty of people out there who simply have well paying jobs and have achieved their situation in life by themselves, with no help.

@Weekmindedfool As a Londoner I don't know anyone who bought without some form of help. I know plenty of people with good jobs & great salaries, they still have help but are using it on the 1.5m houses & school fees. I sold my flat to parents buying it for their daughters, it was the 4 flat on my street to be sold in that manner, the demographic of the street has changed a lot.

You have done really well OP. Especially in London. You should be proud. I totally understand your feelings though and do think more and more (especially younger sub 35 people feel the same). As as you say it stings when you are in work (often with student debt) and pay more tax on your wage income than someone who marries well or receives gifted wealth and pays less tax with easier/no work and gets a much better lifestyle.

I genuinely don’t see how hard work without family wealth means anything anymore and really is the main reason why economic growth is so bad. Essentially, many have given up and there isn’t much point for many in trying anymore as lifestyle is the same across the board regardless of work/effort on a certain wage threshold.

There's a reason the bank of mum & dad are one of the biggest mortgage lenders

As this is a new social group and not well established friends, I would bow out of the NCT group if I were you. The potential moral support they might provide is outweighed by the feelings of inadequacy their financial circumstances has brought up for you and I think this will only get worse as time goes on when they can buy their child experiences or things you can’t afford for yours. This should be a really joyful time in your life and you are already letting it get marred by comparing yourself to what is essentially a random group of strangers who just happened to sign up to the same NCT course as you.

We were in a two bedroom flat with three kids until the oldest was 12. It felt like everyone was in something bigger. I used to read A Squash and a Squeeze to the kids and it made me cry but also made me feel better!

It’s far harder for the current younger generation to do so than anytime in the last 100 or so years

the kids I have come across on sufficiently big salaries have had a ton of advantages from mum and dad even if it’s not cash handout

I understand the jealousy. I can remember going through times when it seemed like 'everyone' had nicer homes and went on better holidays than us.

But I wasn't comparing like with like. We had 3 small DCs, DH was SAHP. My salary had to feed, clothe and house 5 people. Of course it was stretched thin. The people I was comparing myself to had very different lives.

Time moves on. Those 3 DC are now grown adults making their own way in the world. They are a far greater source of joy than anything we could buy.

The only thing I would change if I could would be to go back and have more confidence in myself. For too long I stayed in jobs earning far less than I could have done, simply because I lacked the confidence to say 'I'm worth more'. When I did eventually make that jump my salary went up by 50%. My role is no more stressful than my previous one.

Congratulations on the addition to your family!

Simple question: are you happy with your life? Do you love your partner, enjoy your job and feel comfortable in your home? If yes, you are rich in the best way.

I was the one in my maternity class with the large house. The truth is that we were in a field that paid a premium, nothing more or less. Most of the others were in flats as I recall.
What happened over the next 5 years is that people traded up as they recovered from maternity leave and realised they no longer needed to budget for going out, holidays, clothes and gyms as much as they weren’t compatible with kids anyhow. A few bought lovely houses, one left the region entirely, another did a renovation job. Largely it worked out well for everyone in different ways.
Another circle of friends did better than us and I was the poorer one there! Again it worked out for all in the end.

Don’t be envious OP - you’re starting out and it’s all ahead of you. ❤

We live in a fairly normal end terraced house. I know I have one of the smallest homes compared to my daughter’s friends & even my husband often has mentioned it.

BUT we achieved this without any help, or inheritance. It’s our home and I always remember one of my daughters friends coming over and saying they liked coming over as it was homely - initially I thought she was being a little rude but she repeated that there is laughter in our home and children are able to play and have fun. Unlike her very bland home where she wasn’t allowed friends over and the living space was just for adults.

Hun, take it from grandma, all these women would have less than you without their man's money. 50% will divorce....if you keep your marriage, you'll be the winner

We have a larger than average house, on a lovely street. I’m generally open about how we got it - some generational wealth from my grandparents helped with extending an earlier house, pathologically overpaying the mortgage, and a very lucky investment put us in this fortunate position. But I’m also sometimes embarrassed by the size of our house, especially with people who don’t know us well and don’t know how we got here (for this particular house it also involved an absolutely eye watering mortgage and living in a building site). House is something of a millstone, absolutely gorgeous and wonderful to live in, but cold in winter and has a never ending series of repair jobs. Any change in our working situation would force a sale if not rectified within a few months.

My parents have no money or property at all, so nothing will come from there, in laws have a little bit more, it’s hard to say, modest house and brand new Mercedes makes me think there is perhaps some money there, but it’s not my money so none of my business. They may need substantial care in old age which might wipe out capital. Who knows.

I'm not sure that's a fair thing to say. Women can make their own money you know? And OP is just as likely to divorce, and really in the same situation just less well off... don't pit women against each other like that.

I bought my own (big) house without any help from generational wealth (not least because my grandparents and parents are all still alive) . But based on my social circle/neighbours - nearly everyone I know in nice houses not only had help with hefty deposits but also gets regular cash handouts/help with school fees etc.

And most of us have parents with a holiday home somewhere nice which makes holidays cheap. I've just driven my daughter and three girls to a drama rehearsal and all of them had been on holiday to family villas abroad.

The friends I know without that wealth are just as successful professionally but tend to have much more modest houses, particularly the ones under 30 who didn't get to ride the housing boom

(We got lucky, house we bought rocketed in price due to a local school suddenly becoming popular - it was sheer luck and good fortune)

There is definitely a trend on MN that whenever someone talks about being jealous of women who have married more financially successful men, for others to pile in and say of course they won’t be happy, they must have married for money not love. That the man will dump her for “a younger model”. Completely ignoring all the very happy wealthy retirees who are still married to the one they met in their 20s.

OP - you went to NCT classes, in the cost of living crisis, NCT classes are a luxury, it is not surprising many pregnant women in a similar or worse financial position as you in your area decided that was too much to find and as such the classes were filled with couples who have more disposable income than you.

It is not surprising in a commuter town, you’ll find people who although have humble backgrounds, are earning good money.