I agree with the benefit cuts for promoting

[Canaryhead]

I am on disability and universal credit and I don’t work (which will change when I get the support to some part time work, and I have been in contact with a disability charity). I get points for a physical disability and a cognitive disability. I do have severe mental health issues which I am working on but I don’t claim for it.
So I can see that currently you can score 2 points across a number of categories for needing prompting. And I can see how that relates to mental health, and if you score enough you would then get the full amount of the care component, with the full mobility component if you say you need to have someone with you for your mental health condition (I agree they need someone with them but they shouldn’t be able to use that money to pay for a mobility car in my opinion if they aren’t physically or cognitively disabled) For neurodivergence you would get more than two points as it comes with executive functioning difficulties that have an impact for the majority of the time, harm to yourself and others, so you could argue you're needing supervision and things take longer like for example in processing and tiredness.
if a family and their children are claiming full pip and DLA and associated benefits because they need prompting to do tasks (sorry if I’ve got this wrong and it’s not possible) and are getting thousands for it all combined then I agree that’s so wrong and needs to stop. And I could also see how that allows the family to spend that money on lots of nice things.
people with more expensive disabilities are getting the same rates with more significant costs. I have had to make do with two pairs of leggings from the factory shop that have split apart at the seams and can’t be repaired because of the quality, and I have just been gifted money to buy better quality leggings.
If I am wrong about how I feel towards those that are on full pip for needing prompting, I wouldn’t mind being corrected

I do find it surprising that someone scoring the maximum 84 points receives the same amount as someone scoring 12 points when the costs in my mind would be hugely different. Maybe changing the threshold for higher level to 30 or so would make more sense.
I think you can total 12 points with fairly mild needs but I think they award points very harshly so that skews things

Yabu-
hth

If a person is awarded enhanced mobility, it is up to them if they wish to spend their allowance on a car, wav, wheelchair, or scooter. I don't see what it has to do with anybody else.

To get a mobility car you need to score 12 points under Moving Around.

It's possible to score 12, quite rightly, without being wheelchair bound. However you'd need to have overwhelming cognitive difficulties or very severe ones together with physical issues to get to 12.

Prompting means exactly what it says; stuff the claimant needs to do, like eating or taking medication needs them to be reminded/encouraged. In mobility terms it means needing reassurance when moving around outdoors so as to overcome what would otherwise be overwhelming psychological distress.

If I am wrong about how I feel towards those that are on full pip for needing prompting, I wouldn’t mind being corrected

Well bully for you. For starters, since PIP is not a work related benefit, what on earth does it have to do with going to work? Were you looking for a prize for not working (although you will obviously get around to it when you get whatever support you think someone will give you) and bashing other disabled people who claim PIP? I have received full PIP in both categories and that was what allowed me to work full-time, and pay taxes and support people who can't work (like you).

If you can't imagine what impact needing prompting might have on someone's life - needing reminding to wash, to dress appropriately or to eat so that you don't starve is a pretty huge impact on life, and people who don't do those things generally find that nobody wants to work with them so holding down a job is impossible.

Yes, there are undoubtedly some people who pile on the exaggeration, but that is such a low number that the DWP themselves consider PIP fraud to be near 0%. But what makes you so special that we are supposed to believe that your are the "deserving" disabled when you are critisicing people whose lives you can barely imagine and fuelling the vitriol and hate that people with disabilities face here and elsewhere? Try some empathy, if that is in your reach - just because you are "ok" and "deserving" but can't place yourself in the shoes of someone else doesn't make them less deserving than you.

And you know what - you might think you are "safe". You aren't. They may not be coming for your benefits today (you think, anyway) but what's to say that you won't be next? After all, aren't you just another one of those disabled people claiming they can't work and living off the taxpayer? You aren't any different from anyone else - you are vulnerable to the same narrative. Bet you'll think differently when its your support that is under threat.

You can't even form a legible argument with complete sentences and paragraphs. Your opinion on the allocation and assessment criteria for disability benefits is irrelevant. You are just another poster whose aim is to demonise the disabled. But not your disability, oh no. It's the other disabled people you want to demonise.

Individuals get DLA or pip. I don't think there'll be that many families all at the higher rate for each person raking it it in. And the ones that do, can you imagine how hard their lives must be.

OP, yours is a pretty crappy attitude (and your opening statement is pretty pathetic). It smacks even more of meanness when you finish up with the "and I can only afford...".

🥱 Just another one of those threads!

It’s possible I haven’t articulated myself properly because of my cognitive disability.
So my agenda for this thread was to say that I don’t currently believe that they should be and why I believe that however I am also open minded to finding out why people with mental health issues are entitled to the full amount of both components.

Mental health can be disabling but it can be improved whereas disabilities are very different and are for life, and with the information that I currently have, and yes it’s just my opinion, I don’t think they should be getting the same amount as someone with a life long disability. I also believe that depending on the mental health condition, being on benefits may actually enable them not to improve their condition - unless they have disabilities on top of their mental health, which makes that more complicated.
And I am saying this as someone with severe mental health myself (and I can only see it from my own perspective).

I am so fed up of endless threads bashing disabled people. I have seen a massive shift in attitudes towards my children with complex needs . The resentment is off the scale and sites like MN seem quite happy to facilitate it.

Ok, so much nonsense in the OP, but let's bite a little bit.

It is quite possible, based on mental health issues alone, to score 2 points in one or more categories on the pip application, enough to qualify for the basic rate. I know people who have scored 4 points in more than one category for solely mental health issues. These people are unwell and need support.

Executive disfunction and reliance on other people is a big part of many mental health issues. People who recieve pip for mental health problems are not saying they need someone with them to go out. In one case I know of, the claimant is totally incapable of going out without support (agoraphobia/social anxiety/general anxiety diagnosis). Another claimant I know recieves pip because without ongoing support he will not eat, or sleep, or leave the house, and his pip funds some of that support. Long term reliance on some types of medication for mental health issues can also cause executive function issues, memory issues etc.

People who get pip are also allowed to work, and for many pip recipients it is the thing that allows them to fund the adjustments they need to be able to work.

And quite frankly I don't know anyone who is getting PIP and DLA, and getting thousands. Because you can't. Pip is for those over 16. DLA is for children under 16. No one is claiming both unless it is both for themselves and the child they are caring for. To suggest that someone might be claiming both and making thousands is just nonsense designed to wind people into a self righteous froth. Anyone who is claiming Pip, or DLA (especially DLA I suspect) would exchange every penny like a shot in exchange for being fit well and capable of leading a relatively normal life.

The nasty sneering jealousy of people who seem hell bent on kicking the most vulnerable in society is truly vile on here at the moment.

It is obvious that the OP is happy to receive help for her disabilities, as she is deserving in her eyes, but supposedly wants posters to outline why others with MH issues should be getting xyz. She supposedly needs help to understand why they are getting whatever they are.

Rather than attacking those with mental health conditions, I should say I think it’s an unfair system whereby people with disabilities that will never get better aren’t being supported enough. My interpretation of the particular cuts to the 2 points for prompting are that, those with mental health conditions where for example they are a family all claiming for 2 points to be reminded and prompted (assuming no other disability) will be getting given various benefits that amount to thousands, and they are being enabled to remain mentally unwell.
I don’t agree with the way they’re going about the cuts as for example, cutting it for those who can’t cook but can use a microwave could catch those with actual physical disabilities as well.
If this thread is more harmful than good , and isn’t going to serve its intended purpose then I wouldn’t mind if it was removed because I don’t want to make anyone sicker.

Sounds like the op wants to play disability top trumps tbh- my disability is so much worse than yours... Dfod

Oh and not all mental health issues can be improved, or treated or cured. Some can only be managed. Some people are never going to get better. Treatment resistant depression is one example. Some people are only ever going to manage their conditions. To suggest otherwise is patronising and naive.

This is the kind of insightful response I was looking for, it will also help others understand why people with mental health issues might need pip

Also another helpful response

@Canaryhead Rather than attacking those with mental health conditions, I should say I think it’s an unfair system whereby people with disabilities that will never get better aren’t being supported enough.

Please STOP whilst you aren't ahead. You are being offensive and insulting. And to be clear I have no mental health problems but even I am irate at the way you are speaking about people who do! Plenty of people with mental health conditions never "get better". And improvement can also be cursory - their condition fluctuates.

Your comments about mental health are really NASTY, and from someone who says that they have some mental ill health OFFENSIVE IN THE EXTREME.

I can't say I understand what it is you're trying to say. You're pleased that other people with different abilities to yours will be cut off? You're a genius for choosing not to mention your serious mental health issues when claiming?
You think you deserve benefits more than strangers do?

PIP isn't an out of work benefit anyway so the cuts will stop many disabled from working, not increase their ability to do so.

It's not a competition of who is more disabled and needs the points more.
Probably people with expensive associated costs need a different rate.
We shouldn't be penalizing the worst off in society.

But what makes you so special that we are supposed to believe that your are the "deserving" disabled when you are critisicing people whose lives you can barely imagine and fuelling the vitriol and hate that people with disabilities face here and elsewhere?

This.

@Canaryhead make no mistake, the ableist benefit bashers hate you as much as the disabled people you think you are somehow more deserving over.

And as PhilippaGeorgiou says, don't imagine you will be treated any differently when it comes to your next reassessment, when assessors will probably be incentivized to remove 4s from people's scores and remove their entitlement to the daily living
element of PIP.

It is sad to see some disabled people on MN turning against other disabled people.

I’ve created the thread to gather views on why people with mental health conditions should be getting the same as someone with a disability. At the point of starting the thread, with the information I have had the opinion that they shouldn’t, due to my black and white thinking of the information to hand. but I’m also very open to views, which have already started to be mentioned, and I’m open to changing my mind and it may help to change the minds of others with the same views.
If I understood the difficulties and still said they don’t deserve it only my disability deserves it then that’s wrong. But I don’t fully understand right now.
obviously if my opinion is wrong, then it’s embarrassing and I understand why people are offended.

I'm glad you understand why people might be offended. You are very lucky that you feel your MH problems aren't completely debilitating and life threatening. I wouldn't wish that on anyone. But those of us that do shouldn't be subjected to armchair diagnoses by judgemental strangers.

I don’t want to bash anyone or offend anyone, cause anyone to become unwell or gather a bashing brigade.
I’m not stating that my opinion is correct this thread is simply to collect views and insights about mental health