How can it be THIS difficult to live in the south?!

[CharlotteB94]

So I don’t think this is going to be a popular post. I’m 12 weeks pregnant with first baby and last night husband and I were talking budgets as we are trying to buy our first home out of London, currently renting in London.

I would just like to say we are working in industries that don’t exist or are far lower paid outside London and when I say that I mean we also don’t want to go and live somewhere miles and miles from family and friends where opportunities for career growth are limited. We want some form of quality of life.

We have both worked extremely hard for years and built good careers and salaries, and are buying without any parental help or inheritance and have managed to save while renting for years which of course is a feat in itself.

Even with this in mind, we are finding the house prices anywhere within commuting distance of London, safe and reasonably desirable to bring up a family, absolutely prohibitive when I’m about to go onto SMP. I am talking mortgage repayments of £3k a month. It’s really crushing to have worked and saved so hard and to realise that we are going to have to buy a place that isn’t suitable or what we wanted.

in addition, I wanted to highlight that in this current crisis, people like us who have higher salaries, get absolutely nothing from the government: no child benefit, no funded hours, nothing. Based on the budget calcations we did yesterday we would be living hand to mouth each month saving nothing while I’m off and hardly any better off when I go back to work with these crippling mortgage payments.

I don’t know what age gap people are putting in between kids when they have no help from government as we simply couldn’t ever afford for me to be off work or for a house to live in while paying £40k a year in childcare for 2. This is based on my husband being on over £100k a year. It is WILD.

i honestly don’t know how the system is so broken!! it’s depressing being pregnant for the first time in this world having tried everything to make a successful life for our kids and still being in this position. I just cannot understand at all how people are coping. I wish I could leave the UK but family are here.

that’s all I wanted to say, any thoughts welcome.

4 bed semi in Halstead, Essex, on Rightmove for offers in excess of £280K. Generous garden and parking. Halstead's nice.

It’s hard. No doubt about it.

But imagine how hard it is for someone who lower income…. even if they are ‘entitled’ to some help with childcare

I think that’s the reason why many people chose to buy a house first and then have children. Once you have kids, it’s so much harder. They cost a fortune (and it’s not just nursery either)

Thank you so much for the replies. Wow I wasn’t expecting so many!

Look I realise we are incredibly fortunate and I really recognise that. With regards to gov funding, what I mean is that it’s crazy that house prices are so high in commutable distance to London that people on objectively very high salaries are still struggling but above the threshold to make having 2 kids possible. I just can’t believe how ridiculous it is.

On quality of life, I am not saying being outside London is not a good quality of life, I’m talking about having the choice taken away of where to live and whether that is miles from everyone you know, family and help with a young baby. It’s not great.

We actually don’t want to live in London any more, where we live there is a huge amount of crime and quite frankly it’s put me off, constantly feeling unsafe as a woman walking around. That’s just my personal experience.

I totally agree we need to adjust our expectations of a house. I just find it depressing to look at paying a huge mortgage on a house that is not objectively worth that, in an area that is not perhaps one that people want to live in due to safety or just amenities.

With regards to my job yes there are huge issues there which is also adding to my stress levels while pregnant. The SMP is combined with 5 days a week in the office in London and I don’t see how moving out of London and commuting will work. - also the principle of the lack of flexibility. I don’t want/ have decided not to go back after my mat leave but am also concerned about finding another job straight from mat leave when I might need flexi hours to pick up from nursery.

id also just say, rental prices in London have sky rocketed and renting in London isn’t going to save us any money. We are currently in a tiny 1 bed flat in said area that I don’t feel comfortable in safety wise. I also fear we are just delaying the inevitable, not building any equity.

i really appreciate your comments and the reality check in places is welcomed.

What about temporarily renting outside of London but commutable? You should get more for your money and see if the mortgage rates come down?

I do agree that house prices are crazy and I see a lot of houses that just don’t seem worth what is being asked but you are first time buyers. First time buyers virtually never buy a dream home, you are buying a starter home. Most people buy what they can afford and it sounds like you are looking at houses you can’t afford.

Not what you want to hear perhaps but I say get out of there

Stress, crime, money worries... I cannot understand the appeal of London.

There are many much nicer, affordable places to live.

I lived in London as a child and my mother moved us to Yorkshire.

If you were prepared to commute there are many more options eg you could get a three bedroom house for under £300,000 in Colchester - which is an hour’s commute to London.

I do sympathise, OP. I am a Londoner and have managed to stay in London but its zone 6, a pub conversion, no garden, no damp proofing, and I sleep in the living room, by the front door. Not exactly living the dream. And as I am now nearing 60 and a single mum, thos is as good as its going to get.

I'm hanging on in London so my teenagers can start their working lives here. But I do advise them to choose a career that they can take with them anywhere. It's really hard to live in London even with big salaries these days, let alone for those of us who are earning more prosaic wages.

If you moved out of London you’d have a good quality of life. On your salaries you could easily afford a 3 bed house, two kids and a decent disposable income. We earn less than you and can afford all that in a London commuter town.

So you cant have everything you want - neither can most of us.

I have no advice, however a good friend of mine in his thirties bought a house in princes risborogh. He commutes daily to London on the train. He has a wife and baby. Have you looked there?

I’d look at smaller houses, maybe a flat or broaden the area. Our first house was a 2 bed terrace in Bristol in 2018. We’ve since upsized but we couldn’t buy what we wanted first time.

We earn less than you and your husband about £120k a year combined. No family money to help buy a house but we’re realistic in what to buy.

No matter what your income, trying to buy a house whilst on maternity leave is going to be a stretch! Most people in my circles either got a mortgage pre-kids or have waited until the kids are all in school and they've managed to get their finances back on track.

If you can't afford it, you can't afford it - even though it probably feels like you should be able to - so you will likely have to postpone house buying or look smaller/cheaper areas.

Good luck.

If you say your jobs are good, have you definitely checked what maternity package you will get as most good companies will offer more than just smp. Can you consider not taking a full year off ?

Look, you get a big salary working in London, but huge house prices, or you move and get a lower salary for the same work but that is balanced by lower housing costs. You don't get cheap housing and inflated London salaries. The one is high because of the other, and vice versa.

We moved 250 miles from my parents, 100 miles from dh's parents, to work. We have plenty of friends; once you have kids you make friends at antenatal classes, baby groups, and then the school gates. Yes a paid babysitter is needed for going out for a few years (we actually had a babysitting swaps group).

The choices are yours. Stay in London where a big salary (but not a ridiculous 7 figure one) doesn't stretch as far, or move elsewhere for a lower sum that goes further.

We bought a tiny modern 3 bed box for our first house. Then a 4 bed semi, now in a 6 bed semi. We have savings, loads of friends, good schools, happy kids, and spend free half term holidays at granny's house as well as one UK based and one European holiday each year. Joint income 130k.

We managed it by getting a shared ownership house. You have a mortgage on a percentage of it. You can often then 'staircase up' to a greater percentage / full ownership. Do you research though - not all shared ownership charities/companies are built equally.

This is basically it.

Whilst earning alot, it is clearly not enough for the lifestyle you want. So it depends what is more important to you. A large mortgage and no money to do anything or move, find a new career and have more money to give your DC a decent quality of life.

It sounds like you want to have your cake and eat it. You can’t have all the things you want on your salary. Couples make huge sacrifices in order to have kids,
including postponing career goals.

Is there really nowhere you can afford a two-bed place in a decent enough area? Have you considered a child minder instead of nursery?

What industry do you both work in? I agree that London salaries are higher but the rest of the UK isn't some sort of backward inferior landscape where well paid jobs don't exist!
I know people who work 100% from home all over the country earning 6 figures. I know people based in Central Birmingham and Manchester earning good money who live in big houses in lovely villages with a reasonable commute and a really nice lifestyle.
In various different industries. So many people are hybrid these days and suck up a horrible commute a couple of times a week to live in a nice big house not in London.
I wouldn't want to pay £3k a month on a mortgage for a small poky run down house just because it's close to London
When you're earning well a drop in income seems like a backwards step but you have to think in terms of net pay and think about other factors such as childcare support as well as what sort of property you could buy outside of London for a lot less than £3k a month

If you want to save tax and have cheap childcare then you have to move somewhere like Dubai to save for a big deposit for a few years. But it is very hot and rents are expensive. However, I do know people who have done it and I think it enabled them to purchase what they wanted afterwards. These are people not inheriting or benefitting from the bank of mum and dad.

Simple two up two down just south of London from 350 000 to 450 000. This will doable in your bracket

I think most people living anywhere near London try to get a foot on the ladder before having kids, to build some equity. It’s tough trying to buy a house when your income is going to drop drastically and probably for many years. Most people also have large age gaps between children, so they’re only paying one lot of nursery fees or one parent gives up work until the kids are in school.

My friend lives near Barnet and despite her and her husband having big salaries compared to us up North, she always jokes that she’s like the poor relatives down South. Earning £100k a year sounds mad to people up North but it’s nothing compared to a lot in London. (Yes, I know many also earn less but that’s why there’s so many living below the poverty line).

The only thing I would say is that most people who choose to live in/near London, do so because they love the buzz and would sacrifice a lot to be close to the city. For most, it’s not feasible to have that and expect to live in a big house in the best areas as well. There’s a compromise. My friend lived in a tiny terraced house until her kids were 9 and they had bought the house 8 years before having kids. This is despite her husband earning over £100k and well before the cost of living went so crazy.

I commuted into W1 happily from where I live for four years. My 3 bedroom house is worth £300k. I doubt the monthly mortgage payments would be as much as £3k.

Just how far out are you looking? My commute was 1h10m each way.

I grew up in the south east and it was very clear we couldn’t afford to buy there so we made a sacrifice and moved away from family to live where we could afford. Most people are priced out of London but first property is usually tiny and you use it as a stepping stone (unless inheritance). Our first house was absolutely tiny but it was ours and got us on the property market. Try looking at Folkestone - fast train to London, affordable ish housing compared to London and right by the sea.

Depending on how much over £100k your husband earns, he could pay the excess into a pension when it comes to the nursery years. That would enable you to get the funded hours. Just a heads up though, we are getting 15 funded hours for our 2 year old next month and it has only reduced our full time nursery fees by about 15%.

How much was/is your commuting cost. It must be thousands.