How can it be THIS difficult to live in the south?!

[CharlotteB94]

So I don’t think this is going to be a popular post. I’m 12 weeks pregnant with first baby and last night husband and I were talking budgets as we are trying to buy our first home out of London, currently renting in London.

I would just like to say we are working in industries that don’t exist or are far lower paid outside London and when I say that I mean we also don’t want to go and live somewhere miles and miles from family and friends where opportunities for career growth are limited. We want some form of quality of life.

We have both worked extremely hard for years and built good careers and salaries, and are buying without any parental help or inheritance and have managed to save while renting for years which of course is a feat in itself.

Even with this in mind, we are finding the house prices anywhere within commuting distance of London, safe and reasonably desirable to bring up a family, absolutely prohibitive when I’m about to go onto SMP. I am talking mortgage repayments of £3k a month. It’s really crushing to have worked and saved so hard and to realise that we are going to have to buy a place that isn’t suitable or what we wanted.

in addition, I wanted to highlight that in this current crisis, people like us who have higher salaries, get absolutely nothing from the government: no child benefit, no funded hours, nothing. Based on the budget calcations we did yesterday we would be living hand to mouth each month saving nothing while I’m off and hardly any better off when I go back to work with these crippling mortgage payments.

I don’t know what age gap people are putting in between kids when they have no help from government as we simply couldn’t ever afford for me to be off work or for a house to live in while paying £40k a year in childcare for 2. This is based on my husband being on over £100k a year. It is WILD.

i honestly don’t know how the system is so broken!! it’s depressing being pregnant for the first time in this world having tried everything to make a successful life for our kids and still being in this position. I just cannot understand at all how people are coping. I wish I could leave the UK but family are here.

that’s all I wanted to say, any thoughts welcome.

We bought a one bed flat for £390k in zone 2. We thought we'd be there for a couple of years but have been here for nearly 8 including through a pregnancy and now with a 5 year old. It was a wreck and we've slowly renovated it into a 2-bed flat but it's too small for us now.

We simply couldn't afford a house in an area we were prepared to live in (and couldn't afford a flat in an area we wanted to live in). You buy what you can afford and move up the ladder.

This completely depends on the job doesn't it. Surveys are showing more and more companies are introducing compulsory return to the office. This is a global shift back to the office

I have sympathy for you.

I bought my first house approx 18 months ago, my job is in London, but I live over 2 hours away in East Anglia because houses are too expensive in London. I had no family help to buy, and my partner is a much lower earner (he earns just under the national average).

Luckily I WFH, but if I had to work in the office I would be screwed. I earn a 6 figure salary, but outside London my job pays half as much.

As PP say, a house costing £400k-£500k is £3k per month mortgage payments. The cost of housing has gone up so much, that money just gets you a basic home in many places.

Feel your pain. We were renting in the Kingston area and working nearby, not high earners at all and low really for London but I had a gorgeous outdoors job, we spent alot of our savings on IVF so had to make the choice to stay and spend the rest on nursery while working (nursery same as monthly salary) or leave for a few years/forever.

We left and while where we are enables me to be with my child for a few years rather than spend all my money on nurseries, I miss London/the south so much having lived there 17 years since uni. Hate that we had to make the choice but knew we couldn't feel safe renting in current market near my job anymore. Might go back one day but its hard when you've left they say. If you can get by for the tricky early years then hang on in there! It's tough though and rental market has gone crazy:(

Moving though has meant I've finally learned to drive for first time, see family alot more which is more of a big deal than we considered when having our baby, swings and roundabouts. But I do miss London❤️

I would just like to say we are working in industries that don’t exist or are far lower paid outside London and when I say that I mean we also don’t want to go and live somewhere miles and miles from family and friends where opportunities for career growth are limited. We want some form of quality of life.
Are you implying that 'quality of life' doesn't exist outside London?

I think you must be being quite fussy on location. My large 4 bed detached is "only" worth about £500k, 35 minutes from central London. You can get a first family 3 bed for about £350k

you need to decide what it is you want, unless you’re very wealthy you can’t have everything. You’re not going to be able to buy a family house in London, both working in London and paying London nursery fees for 2 kids. We live in the south east, 30 mins train ride from London and most people round here prioritise one person working in London and the other working at a local or wfh job, often part time. A 3 bed house here is around £300-£400k and very doable on the salaries round here. As for the age gap, our first DC will be starting school as our youngest starts nursery so only one lot of nursery fees at a time, we planned this.

There’s lots of areas in Sussex and Kent with a good commute into London where the mortgage would cost less than 3k per month.

It depends on to what extent either or both of you can work remotely but personally I think if you both need to be in the office at least two days a week, staying in London is financially more sensible than moving out.

For these reasons:

Tfl fares are a lot cheaper than rail tickets - you're talking often £3-4 k a year more on commuting costs

Especially with kids, you will have to run at least one car outside London - in London you can rely on public transport and/or ebike/family cargo bikes - which again saves a lot

Childcare is expensive in London but there are tons of options - you'll never be without holiday childcare etc

Commuting a long distance is really tough when you have young children and are time poor

What is your budget? Better off asking for locations and people’s advice? You are probably much better moving to the suburbs and staying in Zone 5 or 6. Up and coming places like eg. Woolwich. Places like Walthamstow have sailed. Try and buy somewhere clever where you might make some money whilst kids are young and then you move again for secondary school. That is what most people have done.

It's not easy, but it is possible. You just need a really open mind - look everywhere around Greater London. For example, here's a 4 bed, 2 bath house with garden and parking space in a beautiful location, under 10 mins walk from Enfield Lock station that gets you into Liverpool Street in 25 mins. And it costs £500k. Repayments around 2.7k pcm

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/145493738#/map?channel=RESBUY

i think you need to modify the type of house you are trying to buy , people often cannot afford the type of house that they are renting when they first buy . I also think it is a bit rich saying that you don’t get any government help when your husband alone is on a £100k salary , in fact it’s disgusting expecting other tax payers to subsidise you having children .

@woahhhh there is a huge upsurge in media push to make wfh no longer acceptable, but an awful lot of organisations with eyes on the bottom line and with skills shortages are continuing to offer very flexible working. Dp's children a case in point - both in their mid 20s, just both got jobs in London firms requiring maximum one day a week in the office (and one of the firms pays the travel). They have no interest in paying a fortune to a commercial landlord any more, no matter how many stock shots of people in pyjamas the Daily Mail prints.

If you want something more urban and central, and if you don't mind 1960s (possibly ex council but all housing not flats) there are 3 beds in Stratford like this one on at 500k, so similar mortgage of 2.7kpcm.

Not far from amazing green spaces like the Olympic Park and Victoria Park, riverside walks to take the baby out in the buggy (I lived not far from there when DC were small and loved the canal walks with babies in buggy) Also nearby - good theatre, music venues, Discover children's story centre. It's Urban but it's lively.

OP I'm sorry you are finding it difficult to afford the house you want in the area you want sadly that is life for many people now. Most people have to make compromises in the area they buy in and/ or the size and style of their house.
By adding the sentence above you are implying that you deserve more than those who don't earn as much and that people on lower salaries don't work as hard or deserve support. Many people on lower salaries also work extremely hard , and just as hard as you do, they just happen to be in lower paying jobs. Most of them have to compromise on where they live and the type of house they buy too ,the support they get from the Government just means they can eat and keep warm

Whatever wage you are on, you will be benefiting from public services so you definitely do get something from the government. You could argue you're paying in more than you're getting out, but someone has to and if not people on high salaries then who?

London is really expensive but your wages are high too. Some areas you can't earn anywhere close, but they're still expensive. Life is hard for most people and we all have to make compromises as you'll soon be teaching your child.

You're lucky to have the ability to earn well. Enjoy it.

It’s always been the case that when you’re starting out you can’t afford the dream house, you have to compromise. We bought a small 3 bed in an area we didn’t really want to live when we’re expecting our first (not London!) It was ok but we knew it wouldn’t be forever. 12 years on and we live in a large 4 bed detached in a lovely village. We’ve worked hard and have taken opportunities to live overseas and build a great life. Don’t be too stuck on London there’re a lot of other places out there. I know things are tough now but things will change just kept your mind open to other areas / countries opportunities.

OP, if your mortgage payments are £3k per month, you must be borrowing £500k.

There are houses that cost less than £550k in the south, you know. Nice ones, even. You are being a little ridiculous.

I would argue that it isn't only people in London who have a good quality of life 🤔

Having been there I think your problem is what you think of as London vs Not London. In my 30s anything outside of zone 3 was very definitely the Royal Borough of Not London and I was aghast at the prospect of moving there. Then Watford/Honour Oak became the places to buy and now I have a 4 bed house in Zone 5 that costs us just over £3k a month. I think you need to get out a tube map and an overground map and start thinking further afield.

Random house example which I am guessing is roughly around your budget but is also 25 minutes on train to Waterloo.
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/130668506#/?channel=RES_BUY

On a tube line: https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/86773812#/?channel=RES_BUY

My DS lives within a commutable distance to London in Sussex (he's there most days for work, if not further away). He bought a two bed house with his GF a year ago in the SE. They're both 25 and have been in rented since they were 19. No fancy careers, no inheritance, no handouts. Just a lot of hard work and saving.

I really don't understand how other people can't do the same, especially on massive salaries.

He must pay a lot for the commute?

I hear you. I’m the same. We had to move out of London and my commute is now 2 hours. 2 pre school kids. Nursery fees are sky high as both work FT. and our mortgage has just increased ALOT. It’s so depressing. But what can you do?

Agree, our 4 bed in the south east costs less than £500k. We can get to London with a 30 minute train ride.

It's part of his job. He drives, is mainly going up to London every day but also further afield.

I used to know a couple of guys living in the same area who worked for Ch4 and BBC and went up to London every day. Their salary wasn't massive but more than they would have got locally which covered their train fare.