Page 5 | Friends with money

the7Vabo · 2023-04-03T16:03:58+00:00

I’m middle aged, married, two kids, mortgage. We are probably higher middle income, between us we make gross £90k ish. I’m the higher earner. The problem is that while I feel we are far from poor our social group is rich. We were out for a meal recently with a group of friends & they split the bill & it was eye watering for us. It’s awkward because I don’t want be be the only couple in a big group asking to go to a cheaper restaurant. I don’t feel anyone should have to constrain their choices based on our income. It does leave us in a position where we either spend more than we can afford or miss out. Im also in general a bit gloomy about money. I know on a rationale level that we aren’t badly off. Our outgoings are high. We live a nice life although not a particularly luxe one. Anytime we splash out the chunk it takes out of our very small pot of savings upsets me. I just feel a bit joyless. I don’t want to be, I want to be grateful for what I have and consistently mindful that others are so much worse off, but I’m really struggling mentally.

TellHimDirectlyInDetail · 03/04/2023 20:54

Can you work more hours? Get another job? Ask for a payrise?

EasterEggBunny · 03/04/2023 20:56

the7Vabo · 03/04/2023 19:54

tbh think they just didn’t think in this case.
a couple of them one guy in particular have taken a big step up in recent years career wise. We are only noticing it now post Covid as we are now out again but the places they want to go are more expensive, as is the wine. As that particular guy does the organising in general it’s a bit tricky.

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This changes things IMO. I don't think these people are your friends. You get along and nobody is nasty, but honestly, you'd never have met these people if your DH didn't happen to go to school with them. Your lives are so very different your paths wouldn't have crossed.

These are Chief Organizer's friends, he's organising what he wants to do and inviting the rest along. Your DH is included as he was part of the group at school and you're included as his DW. Do you ever meet up with any of these people on a one to one basis? I'm guessing not. So inviting them for coffee etc isn't going to work.

It looks like the options are expensive meals out with drinking or not seeing them. I'd be phasing them out and finding new friends. You're already finding conversation difficult because your lives are so different. It's going to get even more awkward if they all go on every meal out and you skip the majority of them due to finances, there's going to be conversation where you don't know the backstory and you're going to feel even more like a fish out of water. These aren't your people, go find some who are.

Given that you leave early, if you do go out with these lot in future mentally tally up what you've eaten and drunk and when you leave either sort it out with the staff to pay your share or leave the rough amount on the table in cash, so it's there for the others to pay the bill with at the end. Then they split the bill with all the alcohol they've drunk between the lot of them at the end of the night.

This was why I only ever did it for a close friends birthday, because as a non-drinker I always ended up funding the alcohol budget when the bill was split. I was always broke so it wasn't something I could do regularly (and why should I?) but I never bought a birthday present and considered the excessive charge for my meal and my presence at their birthday event to be my gift to them. These were friends who I'd meet up with for other activities regularly, we were very much part of each others lives and it made no difference to our friendships whatsoever that I turned down any non-birthday meals out

Speedweed · 03/04/2023 21:02

I could have written your post, OP. Late forties is a strange time, because people's wealth suddenly becomes uneven, and it creeps up on you. There are lots of 'you just need poorer friends' type posts, but the truth is that even if you all started out at a similar level, by your forties a gulf suddenly seems to open between those whose careers have really taken off, those who inherit big globs of cash - even just those who have steady partners who they've been with for nearly 30 years or so without an exprensive divorce and the benefit of 50% of living expenses for all that time.

It's very hard. But you have to not compare yourself, as that will suck the joy out of your own life.

Also, next time, don't drink at all - that way you can say the booze bill needs to be split between all the drinkers, and the food bill can be split between the table as normal. It never works to have one or two glasses when you're with big drinkers, as it's so much more fiddly to split the bill to reflect everyone's specific share of alcohol.

Original poster

the7Vabo · 03/04/2023 21:19

EasterEggBunny · 03/04/2023 20:56

This changes things IMO. I don't think these people are your friends. You get along and nobody is nasty, but honestly, you'd never have met these people if your DH didn't happen to go to school with them. Your lives are so very different your paths wouldn't have crossed.

These are Chief Organizer's friends, he's organising what he wants to do and inviting the rest along. Your DH is included as he was part of the group at school and you're included as his DW. Do you ever meet up with any of these people on a one to one basis? I'm guessing not. So inviting them for coffee etc isn't going to work.

It looks like the options are expensive meals out with drinking or not seeing them. I'd be phasing them out and finding new friends. You're already finding conversation difficult because your lives are so different. It's going to get even more awkward if they all go on every meal out and you skip the majority of them due to finances, there's going to be conversation where you don't know the backstory and you're going to feel even more like a fish out of water. These aren't your people, go find some who are.

Given that you leave early, if you do go out with these lot in future mentally tally up what you've eaten and drunk and when you leave either sort it out with the staff to pay your share or leave the rough amount on the table in cash, so it's there for the others to pay the bill with at the end. Then they split the bill with all the alcohol they've drunk between the lot of them at the end of the night.

This was why I only ever did it for a close friends birthday, because as a non-drinker I always ended up funding the alcohol budget when the bill was split. I was always broke so it wasn't something I could do regularly (and why should I?) but I never bought a birthday present and considered the excessive charge for my meal and my presence at their birthday event to be my gift to them. These were friends who I'd meet up with for other activities regularly, we were very much part of each others lives and it made no difference to our friendships whatsoever that I turned down any non-birthday meals out

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I see the wives all the time on a one to one basis, and my husband see the men. We do coffees, lunches, holidays etc.
We might not be friends with them if we met them now given they are in a different league financially, but we are very close my husband has knows his friends for decades and they are still close and see each other regularly.
I know people are going to say if you are that close why not discuss it. I think discussing money with anyone is awkward. There is all sorts of dynamics at play.

OP posts:

Original poster

the7Vabo · 03/04/2023 21:22

Speedweed · 03/04/2023 21:02

I could have written your post, OP. Late forties is a strange time, because people's wealth suddenly becomes uneven, and it creeps up on you. There are lots of 'you just need poorer friends' type posts, but the truth is that even if you all started out at a similar level, by your forties a gulf suddenly seems to open between those whose careers have really taken off, those who inherit big globs of cash - even just those who have steady partners who they've been with for nearly 30 years or so without an exprensive divorce and the benefit of 50% of living expenses for all that time.

It's very hard. But you have to not compare yourself, as that will suck the joy out of your own life.

Also, next time, don't drink at all - that way you can say the booze bill needs to be split between all the drinkers, and the food bill can be split between the table as normal. It never works to have one or two glasses when you're with big drinkers, as it's so much more fiddly to split the bill to reflect everyone's specific share of alcohol.

Yes you’ve nailed it IMO. Also by the time you’ve hit middle age you have known some of your friends for 30 odd years. I don’t want to loose them over money. Nor is it easy to simply make new friends.

Good point on the drinking.

OP posts:

Schnooze · 03/04/2023 21:26

I think you will just have to swallow your embarrassment a bit and blame the cost of living crisis.
Its the only alternative to stepping back.

breadwidow · 03/04/2023 21:29

I can def relate to this OP & find myself agreeing with those who suggest you make friends with those who are less well off. I didn't seek out such friendships, but fortunately have made a lovely new group of friends via parents at my kids primary school and we are all in a very similar situation financially and it really does make for more relaxed socialising. And I think we have more in common due to similar life situations.

Noras · 03/04/2023 21:30

I regularly go out with friends when we may or may not be the better off party I would be mortified if a friend who was worse off felt as you do. I’m really happy to go to a cheaper venue as it’s all about chatting and being friends. Surely if you are such close friends you can discuss this?

Santasjingleballs · 03/04/2023 21:41

Just tell them you can’t afford it. It’s not that hard FFS

Galatine · 03/04/2023 22:14

My heart absolutely bleeds for you.
Perhaps you should volunteer for a Food Bank, as I do then you might stop wallowing in misplaced self-pity.

Coldspringtime · 03/04/2023 22:27

The maths is hard to understand op. The issue isn’t you consumed less than you paid for that’s not what you have posted about. You said it was eye watering for you and you had to take it from your savings

thats 175 quid in pounds. For a couple bringing in over 90 grand a year. I’m not sure of who earns what between you and your husband, to work it out exactly, but you will be taking home close to 6 grand a month.

if you had to take that meal from savings, then you’re living hand to mouth, which doesn’t tie with a tiny house, cheap cars and an occasional scone in a cafe. Even full time childcare in Ireland would be about 1600 odds,for two kids. So even after that you’d have close to 4.5 grand a month spare.

so of course your friends would assume you can afford to spend eighty odd quid each on a meal inc drinks, it’s hardly Michelin pricing. Now you’re saying you need to just go to thr park for coffee.

how are your outgoings so high that you can’t even afford a meal out, have very little savings and need to take it from that? Have you over stretched yourselves or have significant debt ? It just doesn’t make sense.

two folks earning over 90 grand a year between them with a tiny house and cheap cars should easily have savings and be able to afford this meal

Calculater · 03/04/2023 22:43

Coldspringtime · 03/04/2023 22:27

The maths is hard to understand op. The issue isn’t you consumed less than you paid for that’s not what you have posted about. You said it was eye watering for you and you had to take it from your savings

thats 175 quid in pounds. For a couple bringing in over 90 grand a year. I’m not sure of who earns what between you and your husband, to work it out exactly, but you will be taking home close to 6 grand a month.

if you had to take that meal from savings, then you’re living hand to mouth, which doesn’t tie with a tiny house, cheap cars and an occasional scone in a cafe. Even full time childcare in Ireland would be about 1600 odds,for two kids. So even after that you’d have close to 4.5 grand a month spare.

so of course your friends would assume you can afford to spend eighty odd quid each on a meal inc drinks, it’s hardly Michelin pricing. Now you’re saying you need to just go to thr park for coffee.

how are your outgoings so high that you can’t even afford a meal out, have very little savings and need to take it from that? Have you over stretched yourselves or have significant debt ? It just doesn’t make sense.

two folks earning over 90 grand a year between them with a tiny house and cheap cars should easily have savings and be able to afford this meal

"Tiny house" and "cheap cars" is all relative.

In my friendship group of people I grew up with at a sink comp, I have a huge house and fancy car - modern 4 bed detached on an estate and newish Ford Focus. Amongst my colleagues, mostly dual income professional couples, my lifestyle is very modest.

Chickdaft · 03/04/2023 23:49

There are lots of ppl living on that wage combined and yes I know for a lot of ppl on here it’s a big income.
if you factor in a large mortgage, and all the expenses of a nice home, then it breaks down to not a lot.
the OP has wealthy friends and whether they come from accrued money/inherited etc, then they are used to splurging at will and won’t realise that those around them might not want to, at the same amounts.
you can look at lovely hidden restaurants that have lovely food and wine that starts at 25 a bottle or less and suggest at next meet? Be loads out there?

remember ppls incomes can change at the drop of a hat, even those with serious money. Look at the US.

also if your circs changed tomorrow, would those same friends go out of their way to meet up with you if day your income dropped to 45k and those restaurants were a bit out of reach? Are they friends or just ‘income’ equal friends in their eyes?

something to think about as you have little kids……x

Original poster

the7Vabo · 04/04/2023 06:10

Coldspringtime · 03/04/2023 22:27

The maths is hard to understand op. The issue isn’t you consumed less than you paid for that’s not what you have posted about. You said it was eye watering for you and you had to take it from your savings

thats 175 quid in pounds. For a couple bringing in over 90 grand a year. I’m not sure of who earns what between you and your husband, to work it out exactly, but you will be taking home close to 6 grand a month.

if you had to take that meal from savings, then you’re living hand to mouth, which doesn’t tie with a tiny house, cheap cars and an occasional scone in a cafe. Even full time childcare in Ireland would be about 1600 odds,for two kids. So even after that you’d have close to 4.5 grand a month spare.

so of course your friends would assume you can afford to spend eighty odd quid each on a meal inc drinks, it’s hardly Michelin pricing. Now you’re saying you need to just go to thr park for coffee.

how are your outgoings so high that you can’t even afford a meal out, have very little savings and need to take it from that? Have you over stretched yourselves or have significant debt ? It just doesn’t make sense.

two folks earning over 90 grand a year between them with a tiny house and cheap cars should easily have savings and be able to afford this meal

I can assure you I don’t have 4.5k a month spare. If I did then of course an expensive meal wouldn’t be a problem.

After childcare we have a mortgage, insurance, electricity etc. it doesn’t leave a lot left over.

OP posts:

Original poster

the7Vabo · 04/04/2023 06:15

Galatine · 03/04/2023 22:14

My heart absolutely bleeds for you.
Perhaps you should volunteer for a Food Bank, as I do then you might stop wallowing in misplaced self-pity.

It’s great you volunteer in a food bank. For my part I leave vouchers on a woman’s doorstep as she has fallen on hard times. I also don’t feel a need to lecture & preach at people. I clearly said in my first and many other posts that are I'm aware many are worse off. I can assure you I’ve had plenty of shit in my life so spare me your judgement.

OP posts:

snitzelvoncrumb · 04/04/2023 06:27

In my closest group of friends I am considerably the most well off. I would never do that to a friend. We go for meals that everyone is happy with.

Calculater · 04/04/2023 08:03

the7Vabo · 04/04/2023 06:15

It’s great you volunteer in a food bank. For my part I leave vouchers on a woman’s doorstep as she has fallen on hard times. I also don’t feel a need to lecture & preach at people. I clearly said in my first and many other posts that are I'm aware many are worse off. I can assure you I’ve had plenty of shit in my life so spare me your judgement.

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That's actually a horrible thing to do. Doing things anonymously like that has people looking over their shoulder wondering who's judging their poverty. Talk to someone and find out what help would be useful, but this way the poor woman is always wondering who knows her business.

Original poster

the7Vabo · 04/04/2023 09:18

Calculater · 04/04/2023 08:03

That's actually a horrible thing to do. Doing things anonymously like that has people looking over their shoulder wondering who's judging their poverty. Talk to someone and find out what help would be useful, but this way the poor woman is always wondering who knows her business.

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I was put in touch with her by a woman running a local group and she has 100% agreed, in fact she has asked for help. She also texts me, I have just never met her so I wouldn’t recognise her in the street which is what I meant at by “anon.” So it’s not a “actually horrible thing to do”.
I’m not judging her poverty either btw. She has fallen on hard times, I know little of the detail nor have I asked, it’s none of my business.

I’m doing something nice. But of course there’s always someone making assumptions & judgements.

OP posts:

Rayn22 · 04/04/2023 09:36

We are the same OP.
We are the poorest out of our group and I don't care. I will tell them we are cutting back and that we can't afford it.
Sometimes it is just best to be honest.

Rayn22 · 04/04/2023 09:42

Or what about suggesting cooking dinner? Or take it in turns at each others! That way you can afford nice food that's already pre prepared. Or take out from a restaurant? It's not necessarily the food that is expensive it's the eye watering amount charged for alcohol.

Hoppinggreen · 04/04/2023 09:46

WhatToDoNowñ · 03/04/2023 17:39

seek out poorer friends ?

Great idea
should she ask them to fill in a spreadsheet of income and outgoings before agreeing it be friends with them ?

BluetheBear · 04/04/2023 12:23

Our joint income is about 95k and we have a mortgage of £1200 and nursery feed of about £900 plus other expenses. £200 wouldn't need to come from savings unless we had spent a lot on other stuff or if you have debts / other expenses OR if you put a lot in savings and leave yourself a little left over.

I would be more concerned I was paying for their stuff!

BluetheBear · 04/04/2023 12:24

Also meant to say we get about £5.5k a month on about £96k

Comedycook · 04/04/2023 12:27

Tough crowd hey?!

ifonly4 · 04/04/2023 12:37

Every couple we know has a larger income than us. In relation to your income ours is less than 50% of yours.

Maybe your friends needs an honest reality check. Just be honest with them and ask to split the bill, or ask to pay your share. Our friends really don't care and if we say somewhere looks a bit expensive and don't fancy it, we all look for another option. We know one couple who's income is 6x more than ours - it really doesn't seem to matter.