Does anyone still believe Covid came from a wet market?

[Aerialis]

Even the sainted New York Times has now confirmed, 5 years too late, that those dangerous 'conspiracy theorists' were right all along, and that Covid did not come from a bat crossed with a pangolin at a wet market in Wuhan, but unbelievably from a lab leak at the Wuhan institute of virology next door, who had been conducting gain of function research on coronaviruses. Surprise, surprise and who would have thought!

thespectator.com/topic/new-york-times-comes-clean-about-covid-zeynep-tufekci-apoorva-mandavilli/

Makes you think what else the 'conspiracy theorists' got right, and what else our governments and media are still lying to us about.

But anyone actually still actually think it came from a wet market rather than a lab leak?

Agreed, I had two friends badly affected. Both still unable to work. But such has been the level of psychological manipulation (propaganda) used by governments, via the media, on the people, the public still believe the 'safe and effective' line. Such is the desire to block the holes in the dam holding back the lake, even MP's speaking up about it get smeared and then fired (Andrew Bridgen).

And those of us who did not fall for the propaganda got called rude names like 'conspiracy theorist' or 'covidiot' or 'science denier' or 'granny killer' and the rest. All part of the manipulation of course and designed to quash dissent.

It would be worth you looking intowhat causes the housing shortage. Clue: it's not necessarily due to more people than actual housing. So nope.

I think it's right that in the early days media outlets were very cautious about publishing highly inflammatory accusations without the evidence to back them up.

There's a very good radio 4 podcast series on BBC sounds that looks at all the evidence - there is a lot of evidence that points to a lab leak, but also a few anomalies that don't fit in with that theory. It's worth a listen ( but I suppose it might be too long for most people). It's called "Fever- the hunt for covid's origin"

It was a lab leak.

Long covid is bollox.

Both of these things can be true.

100% facts

How is that relevant to Covid?? 🙄

A lot of people in China believed the lab got rid of test animals at the market. (Or just the excess animals as opposed to ones which were directly experimented on). However some were still infected hence it was theoretically a leak but still came from the market.

There was fairly conclusive proof early on that this was an 'engineered' virus that could not have occurred naturally. Yet any talk of it got shut down and stamped on brutally and quickly. The BBC and most of the other mainstream media are still very selective what they do and don't tell us. Gone are the days of balanced and independent investigative journalism. Most of our media is now controlled by the state and their corporate backers, much as it ever was, but the Covid pandemic has just highlighted this to many who never realised. BBC is little more than a government tool used to change how people think these days.

I think it makes a lot of sense it was a lab leak. I don’t think the belief that ‘all vaccines are rubbish and more harmful than the disease’ follows in anyway logically from that though. I think that’s called ‘throwing the baby out with the bathwater’.

Most people I know thought it was a lab leak? At the time I thought it was some very stupid theorising regarding the wet market. As did most people?

FFS

Vaccine injuries.

I've got absolutely no time for that nonsense.

Vaccines are entirely optional.

The whole conversation around 'vaccine injuries' is absolutely bollox.

Vaccines are a choice.

No fucker is making you have them...

All the Covid vaccines reduced Covid infection rates and also reduced the impact of the illness. Massively. And no, they did not increase death rates.

The wet market theory is perfectly sensible and I still believe it.

But that's honestly not true that there was conclusive evidence early on that it was engineered. It's still not indisputably clear, although a lab leak does on balance look like the most likely scenario.

You, you can absolutely chose what media you chose to consume.

Look, I'm pretty sure Covid wormed its way from a lab in China.

What you gonna do about that?

You can go absolutely bonkers with whatever.

I doubt it will help you.

There are literally dozens of labs in China doing research on viruses. But the one at Wuhan happens to be next door to a wet market. So it seems a reasonable hypothesis that the market is where this virus was spread from.

Makes me wonder which other crackpot theory you are invested in. I mean there's so many now to choose from. RFK jnr is the new minister of Health in Washington so I expect tinfoil hats will soon be de rigeur across the west. Enjoy.

Well said.

I think the conduct of the government's scientific advisers was far more concerning together with the reliance on data that was incorrect. Covid, whilst unpleasant was never the plague. Statistically an infinitesimal proportion of the population died of covid and they were almost invariably vulnerable. A slightly less infinitesimal number of very vulnerable people died with but not from covid.

The statistics never warranted shutting the economy and society beyond the first six weeks, if at all. The impact of that is far greater than anything arising from Covid.

If it did come from a lab and if it was more purposeful than a leak, China has strengthened its position against the Western economies who have spent huge amounts of money and subsequently reduced their economies. They are therefore relatively much weaker when compared to China than they were.

Me.

It didn't only kill sick 80 year olds. What a cruel thing to say, when so many people on this forum will have lost someone.

But one of them is certainly nonsense.
The same people telling you Long Covid doesn't exist are saying the Covid vaccine is killing us.

There has been research into mask use for flus and coronaviruses before Covid which proved them ineffective in these cases, which begs the question why put millions into them, and why force people to use them and tell them they’ll prevent spread? Some people are still using them whilst in their cars alone!

As for the current increased deaths, there’s no evidence it’s from the vaccines, and stating so loses credibility of the issues there are. Excess deaths are not happening to this extent in countries like Sweden where vaccine take up was higher. Increasing cancer rates was happening before covid (research is trying to figure out how - possibly linked to UPFs, microplastics, lifestyle changes, but honestly I don’t think they know). We have had enough issues with the NHS to explain excess deaths - cannot see a gp, ambulance crisis a year or so ago, waiting times increased, the whole of the pandemic crisis time loads of services, including those investigating possible cancer, were suspended.
Increasing cases of autism may well be linked to something like UPFs and microplastics. The link between vaccines and autism has been heavily researched (probably more than any other drug) and consistently found to have no link, but I understand Trump is launching even more research. The elephant in the room though that may well increase rates of special needs is schools that are now toxic places for many children to be, which increases behavioural problems.

The NHS is collapsing - you need to watch everyone there, not just the elderly!

I understand you’re a sceptic, I am too, but don’t let the scepticism cloud your judgement. There is so much misinformation out there on both sides of the argument, probably deliberately, which clouds everything that’s said.

There should be some serious questions asked of mainstream media. So much for a Fourth Estate.

The coverage of injuries from Covod vaccines has also been appalling. It should be transparent and accurate. Denials in the face of obvious injuries (autopsies and confirmed cases) actually benefit conspiracy theorists and harm victims.

Oh for goodness sake. I see now this is an anti-vax thread in disguise 🙄

I never held a belief about the likeliest origin story either way, and still don't.

Always bemused me that some people appeared to genuinely think the lab leak theory was racist, though. You don't hear that so much these days.

The reason people go on about it is because those who claimed it was from a lab leak were censored and some lost their jobs. It's easy now to say the truth but it wasn't at the time.

The mainstream media also entirely shut down the lab leak 'theory' no dissenting voices were allowed. Therefore knowing they were wrong makes many question the mainstream narrative on other issues.

A lab leak is also possible again if we continue to allow gain of function research so this needs to be stopped immediately. It was the US finding this research.