If you didn't get the jab, would you consider having it now?

[AreYouVeryAnti]

You'd better be quick if you're healthy and under 50...

"The Telegraph understands the Government is also preparing to wind down the open offer of the first two doses over the coming months. The move will mean unvaccinated healthy under-50s will soon not be able to get a Covid jab unless one is recommended by a medical professional."

Social media users are circulating the study of post-vaccination heart effects in Thai teenagers with the claim that a third of participants experienced heart effects, and the suggestion that the results indicate a new danger level for children. These posts are missing context: the study’s authors concluded, “We found the risk of these symptoms to be not as low as reported elsewhere, but in all cases, symptoms were mild with full recovery within 14 days.”

Thailand’s Princess Bajrakitiyabha, the eldest of the king’s children and a potential heir to the throne, collapsed on Dec. 14 while training her dogs for a competition. On Jan. 7, a palace statement said the 44-year-old princess fell into a coma due to a severe arrhythmia, or irregular heartbeat, caused by heart inflammation following a mycoplasma infection.

Mycoplasma is a kind of bacteria that typically affects the lungs, skin or urinary tract, depending on the species responsible for an infection. Most infections are mild, but some can be severe and even fatal. Mycoplasma pneumoniae, for instance, is a common cause of pneumonia, but in rare cases it can spread to other parts of the body, including the heart. Because these bacteria have no cell walls, like most bacteria do, some antibiotics won’t work against them.

The Royal Household Bureau has released three statements about Princess Bajrakitiyabha since her collapse. In the most recent one, from more than a month ago, authorities said the princess remained unconscious and that she was receiving antibiotics and heart, lung, and kidney support.

Despite no mention of COVID-19 vaccination, online articles and social media posts have baselessly claimed that the princess’s condition was caused by a COVID-19 vaccine and that Thai officials were banning Pfizer’s shots.

“Thailand to BAN Pfizer After Thai Princess Falls Into a Coma Following Booster Jab,” reads one Feb. 5 headline from a dubious website.

The claims stem from an interview, widely shared online by anti-vaccine activists, with a retired Thai-German microbiologist named Sucharit Bhakdi. Bhakdi, who has spread misinformation about COVID-19 and the vaccines before, claimed without evidence that the princess collapsed 23 days after a booster. He also said, incorrectly, that a bacterial infection “would never do what she’s suffering from,” and called the diagnosis “so ridiculous.”

Half an hour into the interview, Bhakdi said the vaccine was “deadly” and suggested that Thailand was going to cancel its vaccine contract with Pfizer/BioNTech.

Yes there is a lot of speculation - she was in good health and her father the barking mad King had forced her into a ruthless exercise regime. She is essentially brain-dead and has been since December 14th and being kept alive on ECMO machines. Rumours are she has been moved to an ad hoc ER room in an abandoned palace. A lot of Thai people believe it was the vaccine that has done this, but can't discuss this openly owing to despotic lèse-majesté laws.

Her own doctors have explained the cause of her illness.

It's ridiculous how every illness and death is now being ascribed to the SARS-COV-2 vaccines, it's as if no-one died unexpectedly before 2020.

@rockly

It's ridiculous how every illness and death is now being ascribed to the SARS-COV-2 vaccines, it's as if no-one died unexpectedly before 2020.

And illness, too. I have a degenerative neurological condition. Not only is this now supposedly caused by vaccines, anti-vaxxer types are claiming they are suffering terrible neurological injury from the Covid vaccine. This hijack is despicable - particularly so given the way the vulnerable and disabled were treated during the height of the pandemic.

I think what alarms me the most - is that the absolute priority of the ‘anti science’ believers - appears to be the own belief in their natural immunity. That for them it will be/or has been ‘just a cold’. There seems such an overwhelming and disproportionate amount of concern for those who have been vaccine injured. Is that concern is based on the idea that a potentially ‘fit/just a cold’ type person has been injured, particularly as these (unproven) stories tend to revolve around ‘athletes’ or ‘princesses’? That their health is somehow of far greater importance than the deaths (approaching) of 7 million globally and much higher figure who have had ‘injuries’/long term health complications or could not receive adequate care from overwhelmed hospitals as a result of Covid itself.

One point is that for the vaccine injured and there are a lot of then numerically the cost / risk benefit for society in general turned out to be a bad deal for them even if for society it turned out to be for the greater good.If they were young and healthy as well as one could see that they would be very regretful and maybe vocal in their anger. This has proved to be a boon for the anti-vaxxer/anti science /conspiracy mob and will make mass vaccination campaigns very difficult in the future. 'Dr' John Campbell, Russell Brand, Joe Rogan and many others with millions of followers has majored on this relentlessly.

@MinkyGreen I absolutely believe in my own natural immunity to fight covid. I avoided it for 3 years but last week came down with it (didnt test although i am pretty sure) Sore throat, loss of taste and smell, diarrhea and just general cold symptoms. I have woken up this morning very dizzy (day 12) so i am on the sofa taking it easy. At no point have i ever wished i had had the vaccine. It is just something that i would not do, not now, not ever.

@Ambertonix

I think that’s up to you - but to then back that stance with an anti-science agenda is wrong. Or to over emphasise stories of vaccine injury amongst the healthy - with no acknowledgement that the risks from Covid complications are far greater than risk from vaccine injury - is wrong.

Why conveniently dismiss the deaths/long term health complications of millions of people across the globe from Covid, while giving excessive credence to - sometimes unproven - vaccine injury stories? I’m trying to understand the mindset or motivation behind people who want to do that?

In a study for young males : Even among males aged 12–17 years, the group with the highest incidence of cardiac complications after receipt of a second mRNA COVID-19 vaccine dose, the risk was 1.8–5.6 times as high after SARS-CoV-2 infection than after vaccination,” the study says.
The incidence of myocarditis or pericarditis among males ages 12 to 17 was 56.0 to 64.9 cases per 100,000 after infection, compared with 26.7 to 35.9 after the second vaccine dose.
The study was based on 40 health care systems’ data on 15.2 million people ages 5 and up from Jan. 1, 2021, through Jan. 31, 2022.

I dont deny at all that covid could be causing long term health problems, we just dont know. All im saying is that young, fit healthy people were shamed, coerced and strong armed into getting a vaccine they didnt feel they needed just in order to go to work/ go on holiday/ see granny etc. The fact that some are now living with terrible injuries from these vaccines cannot be dismissed, they may never ever have caught covid and if they did it would have been what amounted to a heavy cold. I totally agree that more studies need to be done on the long term effects of covid on the body but that doesnt negate the need to find out whether the vaccine caused ill effects in some people and we must never again find ourselves in a position where we are 'forced' to do something we dont want to do in order to continue living every day life. The people that were happy to take the vaccine and who continue to have booster after booster, im not worried about, it is their decision but, people like me who said 'no thankyou' must be left alone and not treated like lepers in society even amongst their own family.

@Ambertonix - please don’t refer to Covid symptoms being like a heavy cold. Very disrespectful to my two friends who died of Covid just weeks before the vaccine was rolled out. They were healthy 55 and 72 years olds with no underlying health conditions. Their symptoms and deaths were nothing to do with a heavy cold.

@Ambertonix

I never saw ‘forced’ - I think that’s as much fear mongering as any accusations levelled against governments or scientists for fear mongering. Also I’d say ‘terrible injuries’ is fear mongering while giving no acknowledgement to millions of deaths/terrible injuries worldwide from Covid. Two children in my wider family suffered from PIMS and labyrinthitis after a Covid infection. Purely anecdotal and not officially verified (only suspected) by a qualified medical expert, but seeing as so much weight is being given on this thread to anecdotal evidence - why shouldn’t I put that as a very substantial reason to follow consensus science? Especially as my experience seems to pretty much fit with global findings.

Being safe to work with vulnerable people and to travel abroad is not the same as ‘forced’ in the middle of an unprecedented pandemic. Thank goodness we are not in that situation now, and there is no great need to ‘force’.

Do you see childhood vaccinations as ‘forced’ - or yellow fever, polio and ICVP’s as ‘forced’? Are all medical assessments prior to performing certain jobs ‘coercion’ or necessary in order to perform a role safely?

For millions of people globally, Covid was not a ‘heavy cold’. How can you just dismiss their suffering?

All im saying is that young, fit healthy people were shamed, coerced and strong armed into getting a vaccine they didnt feel they needed just in order to go to work/ go on holiday/ see granny etc.

It used to be that people taking the vax were criticised as sheeples, lemmings, couldn't think for themselves, etc etc Now it seems like that it's the other way round. 🙄

i can only speak for myself, but i have had covid twice and my symptoms were so mild that i would catégorisé them as similar to a VERY mild cold. i agree with the premise that these vaccines should never have been forced on the population at large for a myriad of reasons. i am terribly sorry for anyone that suffered dreadfully with covid, and, of course, for those that lost their lives. @Ambertonix doesn't strike me as being disrespectful at all, and i don't understand why anyone attempting to explain their personal situation on here is insulted as anti-science, insensitive, potentially lying, etc. at this stage it is not even debatable that certain people have been terribly harmed by these vaccines, and not enough research is being done on the subject. doctors who have tried are immediately demonised, lose their livelihoods, their reputations, etc. this has happened to a close childhood friend of mine who has been put into the "disinformation dozen" camp, but she has great moral fortitude and is standing strong in the face of attacks she couldn't have anticipated. i went to a very academic school in the usa, which is ranked as one of the top 15 private schools in the usa. my friend was the most intelligent student i have ever known, and a highly honourable person to boot. so many of you automatically assume anyone vaccine hesitant gets their information from facebook, google, youtube or wherever, but that is simply not true in my case, nor in the case of others i know personally who have chosen not to have these vaccines.

@Ambertonix
*
All im saying is that young, fit healthy people were shamed, coerced and strong armed into getting a vaccine they didnt feel they needed just in order to go to work/ go on holiday/ see granny etc. *

how anyone can find fault with your statement is beyond me. you've summarised what took place in a mild way, yet some still react with 🙄 emojis. yet, supposedly you are the insensitive one on here? that's inversion to the maximum, which i'm sure you already know. i'm sorry you have covid at the moment. some vitamins really helped me, but i'm reluctant to post about that, as it really stirs up the viper's nest.

@peppathe3rd Thankyou, it was never my intention to be disrespectful to anybody. For the majority of people covid has felt like a heavy cold, plenty of people have said it on threads here on mumsnet. Obviously i know that some people died especially at the beginning of the pandemic and that is awful. BUT the damage done by people totally overreacting has been far worse. Families not able to see each other for fear of 'killing' the elderly or vulnerable ones. Children not able to go to school or interact with their peers. I could go on but we all lived it so we know what it was like. Going forward, i an very worried about the long term effects on the body of both covid and the vaccine. My DH has had two vaccines and one booster, i havent had any. We both have covid symptoms (not tested) only difference in symptoms was that i have lost my sense of smell and taste and feel dizzy today whilst he has had more headaches.

@Ambertonix - schools closed because of the rate of transmission and would have to anyway as so many teachers were catching Covid and away from work.
sounds like you were quite remote from what was happening - was that intentional? DH is a doctor and worked on Covid wards. His view and many of his colleagues is that the UK locked down too late and not hard enough. We could see what was happening in Italy but the UK ignored it

having 2 accounts on mumsnet is not allowed. i've reported the post suggesting @Ambertonix and i are the same person, as it is untrue.

@MinkyGreen
please stop insinuating falsehoods about me

How can you possibly know what the experience of Covid is like for the majority of people? And there are no long-term effects from the vaccine. There is no possible mechanism for this.

My DP us fully vaccinated an really suffered with it last week, I was on the verge of getting him urgent attention My sister had it over Xmas and had an almost stroke like experience. Two children in my family - one had PIMS. I remember the stress there if thinking it might be leukaemia - poor girl in an overwhelmed hospital put on a Covid ward. She was terrified. Oneu had labyrinthitis. But the absolute worse experience was seeing my DM suffer with bowel cancer during the height of the pandemic when she needed urgent hospital care. Her hospital was so overwhelmed that she wasn’t given painkillers after surgery. She was probably only days away from death until I pleaded with the hospital. Covid would have finished her off. Two close friends of mine - heathy 30 year olds both needed an ambulance - and had no one to care for their toddler. Plus I know of about 10 people who lost their lives to Covid.

But apparently Covid was just a ‘heavy cold’. They are just collateral
damage in favour of those with their strong natural immunity who are so much better and wiser than consensus medical opinion.

Natural immunity is a wonderful thing until our immune system comes up against something that overwhelms it. History is full of infectious diseases that have killed millions. Sadly their immune systems weren't able to do enough to prevent the inevitable. This has also been true for Covid, for some unfortunate folk.

Indeed. I know someone who was a body builder, vegetarian, natural remedy type of chap. Trusted his natural immune system totally. He was really healthy and his body would cope with it right? He's dead now, from Covid, leaving a wife and two primary school aged kids. He was one of those begging for the jab whilst struggling for breath in hospital. So very tragic.

I don't think there is anyway your immune system can be tested. It works until it doesn't.