To Think People Don't Know Covid Harms The Immune System

[Sunshineguy]

Many people are blaming the unusually severe winter bugs on so-called 'immunity debt', the false idea a prolonged period of health makes one more susceptible to infections. Two countries disprove this theory. Sweden was largely open and had a large wave of RSV hospitalizations in 2021 and an even larger one this year. Japan was largely closed, and now it's opened up only had a tiny number of people hospitalized for RSV.

The WHO is warning Covid-19 causes immune dysfunction.

twitter.com/Sandyboots2020/status/1608402400817336322?t=Jj_Kz6Bxhk04sP_osKOGEg&s=19

And evidence is amassing of the range of immune damage done by the virus:

twitter.com/jeffgilchrist/status/1605958004163084292?t=WMTYOfFYmveyzE9aVt9Ppg&s=19

If the immunity debt isn't repaid in 2023, and people keep experiencing more sickness than usual, will we all accept this SARS virus will never be a common cold?

Many people are blaming the unusually severe winter bugs on so-called 'immunity debt', the false idea a prolonged period of health makes one more susceptible to infections

I think you may have the wrong definition for immunity debt. The idea of immunity debt is more accurately expressed as a “a prolonged period of social isolation makes one more susceptible to infections”. Immunity debt occurs when you don’t have the regular, low level daily exposure to new pathogens which acts to keep your immune system on alert. Being socially isolated, ie in lockdowns and social distancing, reduces your daily exposure and so your immune system tends to go into sleep mode. This means a new virus is more likely get a firm foothold before your immune system catches on, thus making you more likely have symptoms of illness.

As far as I am aware immunity debt is a hypothesis. So it’s not a theory, or law or scientific fact.

The WHO is warning Covid-19 causes immune dysfunction.

This is nothing new, post-viral fatigue is well known and a primary cause of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS) which does include suppression of the immune system. ‘Long Covid’ is simply a type of CFS.

Maybe I’m not reading this article correct, but to me it’s saying: immune function is better in unvaccinated individuals and boosters could adversely affect the immune response …..

This was literally the first hit with a Google search of ‘Covid vaccine damages immune system’ - it’s not false information or fear, the information is out there.

then coronoviruses actually are "the common cold"!

No. Coronaviruses is a category of viruses similar to how mammals are a category of animals. They range from mild to lethal.

So to say all coronaviruses are common colds is rather like saying all mammals are cute dogs when in fact there are bengal tigers in the group as well.

Your immune system doesn't need to be kept "on the alert". (Think of it, not as a muscle that needs to be exercised, but as a reference photo album that's always there, the pictures in it will stay sharp unless scribbed on (dysregulation) though they may fade over time (old age affecting all, but different rates of fade for different pix - some stay sharp forever, others may not)

(But even if it did, then all the microbes found in food and on surfaces would have kept it ticking over. Lower circulation of only some pathogens doesn't have that sort of impact)

It does mean there will be a larger cohort in the population which haven't encountered eg RSV before, so more cases. But that doesn't mean greater severity - unless there's something else going on, such as dysregulation of the elements of the immune system relevant to dealing with that pathogen.

Example: RSV - if it had been immunity "debt" would have been a far greater issue last winter (no restrictions in schools, normal/increased circulation in preceding southern hemisphere winter). And as it's generally less severe in older children, you would have expected to see proportion of severe cases falling. That doesn't seem to be happenng

I googled "Covid vaccine damages immune system" and this was my first hit - debunking the misunderstandings:

fullfact.org/online/covid-vaccines-natural-immunity/

@FamilyLife2point4 - that screenshot appears to be of an article, not an actual statement from EMA. Could you link the URL?

Yes, this is an article, not a study and for that particular bit you have circled, it lists this study as a reference.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8816388/?report=reader

But I’ve read through it can find nothing regarding unvaccinated having better immune function than vaccinated? The study was done on the waning of vaccine generated immunity to covid.

Thank you, that was a very helpful fullfact article,

@UnmentionedElephantDildo
Your immune system doesn't need to be kept "on the alert"

Completely agree. Thank you for expanding on the limits of the immunity debt idea.

Most people do not want facts, they want something that will support their desire to go back to their former life. So they'll bury their heads as far in the sand as they will go.

The truth is that covid is a nasty virus that does long term damage to your body. Just how bad it is we'll find out in years to come. It has potential to shorten lives and damage brains but how may people will be affected and how badly is something that will take time to find out. It will also take time to find out what mitigation methods work.

I'm wearing a mask in supermarkets and the like, most people dont. I'm vaccinated. I eat heathily and take my vitamin D in winter, I wash hands often. If maskless around risky people I'll also use one of the nasal sprays that may be preventive and I have an air filter for my home. I've not had covid and I've not been ill so far this winter.

Many people could cut down on their frequency of reinfection but are no longer willing to do what is sensible.

Covid doesn’t have to impact immune system more than a few months to be threat. I caught flu once every few years and cold at most once a year with Covid we set to catch it 3 to 5 times a year which in turn will expose us to flu and other illnesses.

Never mind 1% chance of developing long covid with each infection and new variants developing that will not respond well to vaccines in terms severity of the initial illness.

This is my point. It’s a nasty virus for some people. Not all.

I don’t agree with all these blanket statements. For many Covid is mild and has no lasting impact.

Most people are back to their former lives. Why on earth wouldn’t they be? How sad to carry on otherwise.

For what it’s worth, I use the nasal
sprays, I eat well, exercise. That’s all I’m prepared to do.

We are not all going to get Covid 3-5 times a year! What rubbish.

Ive had it twice. I know people who have never caught it. Stop with the blanket statements that don’t apply to everyone.

I do think some people unfortunately appear to be more susceptible than others - looks to be maybe genetic. I’d like to see more research in to this.

No one will argue for lockdowns anymore as we have lost the window of opportunity.

Covid restrictions implemented correctly at the beginning meant that restrictions didn’t have to go for ever.

countries like Japan have already shown it. Unfortunately western countries didn’t play ball. This is a disease that needs international cooperation and one country cannot fight it alone. The only countries with enough leadership were US and also UK which had enough clout to possibly help or persuade others to join in.

It is a little anti intuitive with such highly contagious diseases. The earlier you tackle them and the harder you tackle them at the beginning, better off you’re.

If you wait till last minute to lockdown (I.e. when hospitals are struggling) you will have to have longer and more restrictive lockdown which is also less effective and hence eroded public trust.

also lockdowns should only be used as last tool not the first. Most important tool is controlling the numbers through aggressive test and trace and that can only be done when number of infections are low.

Anyways those tools are not available anymore and all we can ask for are masking mandates and ventilation and hopefully sterilising vaccines in the longer term.

Except we don’t know exactly who are the lucky ones and how many infections will it take for it to change your life.

By the way the acute stage of many viruses such as HIV are also mild. Your body can be damaged even if the infection is asymptomatic.

In the long run we will all age so this means we have all accepted a shorter lifespan without proper debate. Maybe that’s the right thing to do but proper cost and benefit analysis will involve looking long term and debating the issues.

Also let us not forget the effects on the vulnerable. Because next time another issue comes about talking head will use the Covid precedent to throw another group under the bus.

This!

Go on then, OP, do explain...

I’d rather a slightly shorter lifespan than restrictions limiting my life whilst I’m alive. I’m not prepared to have any more restrictions on my life. Those who would rather can stay in their houses and avoid everyone.

The immune response specifically to that vaccine (and possibly COVID). Not the immune system generally. Again, this article is about the long term efficacy of vaccine use for producing immunity to covid. It does not measure or claim to measure the impact of the vaccine on the immune system more broadly. You absolutely are spreading false information.

I think the point is that most people accept the risk, and would rather take the risk than live the half lives we lived in the pandemic. I am one of them.

This is a new virus in the world which we now have to work out how to live alongside.

Regardless of what impact it has on us, we have to keep the humanity show on the road.

We can't avoid the consequences as Australia, NZ, and now China are finding out. All we can do is postpone them.

From what I'm deducing from those findings, this isn't something we can reduce or avoid.

The mental health and now economic/societal consequences of lockdowns have been too severe (IMO) to justify what we did. We prioritized the lives of elderly people over the younger and working populations. No more.

I've seen at least two suicides which I believe would not have happened, and a whole generation of teens sent over the edge.

I agree with all of this. Great post.
Also, the impact of lockdowns on young children has been significant. Big uptick in SEN diagnoses in first few school years, from what I hear. Before the vaccines it made some sense to lock down and mitigate the spread of the virus but not any more.

My DP's poor son is a mess, aged 19. He didn't take his GCSEs - he was just awarded grades based on nothing in particular. He never learned to revise, was given and received the impression that good results are just something handed to you, he and his mates never learned to hang out together at the critical stage, his one hobby was shut down and never resumed, he didn't engage with his A levels with predictable results. He's clearly depressed, aimless, sad, has no idea what to do with his life.

I'm so furious about what ha as been done to so many young people, and cannot believe people are still trying to defend it.

That’s so sad and not uncommon. We’ve thrown a whole generation under the bus. For mainly the over 85s. When the average life expectancy is…

Well I am not prepared to live a life with constant testing and being shut away on a regular basis. Humans are social animals and we can all see how awful lockdown was. For a lot of people it was utterly brutal.
We need to be sensible. If you’re ill stay at home but I’m not prepared to test when asymptomatic

In case no one said it yet, great post, thanks!

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