To Think People Don't Know Covid Harms The Immune System

[Sunshineguy]

Many people are blaming the unusually severe winter bugs on so-called 'immunity debt', the false idea a prolonged period of health makes one more susceptible to infections. Two countries disprove this theory. Sweden was largely open and had a large wave of RSV hospitalizations in 2021 and an even larger one this year. Japan was largely closed, and now it's opened up only had a tiny number of people hospitalized for RSV.

The WHO is warning Covid-19 causes immune dysfunction.

twitter.com/Sandyboots2020/status/1608402400817336322?t=Jj_Kz6Bxhk04sP_osKOGEg&s=19

And evidence is amassing of the range of immune damage done by the virus:

twitter.com/jeffgilchrist/status/1605958004163084292?t=WMTYOfFYmveyzE9aVt9Ppg&s=19

If the immunity debt isn't repaid in 2023, and people keep experiencing more sickness than usual, will we all accept this SARS virus will never be a common cold?

@CleoandRalf but they are not factually wrong as yet , it is still unknown , or do you have all the research to hand which says otherwise

Nar, Im not buying that. Any infection temporarily destroys the immune system so covid isn’t special in that respect.

What she said

@PeekAtYou you would need to know what their averages are normally as well
One winter would not give all the answers

@CleoandRalf yes and you need educating in basic manners but there you go

I see Sweden has officially declared a flu epidemic now too.

Nar, you're not buying... science? From the WORLD HEALTH ORGANISATION? 😂😂😂😂😂

YANBU, OP! There is a hard of thinking or denial of science issue with this subject matter I think. Mainstream media and our feckless politicians don’t exactly help with this.

No one needs to be polite to people spreading misinformation and denying basic facts.

I've read this before OP and I do agree, I think it is true that people are picking up bugs they missed out on over the past few years but something else seems to be going on to. I've read that having an illness doesn't work your immune system like a muscle making it stronger as some seem to think but that the real issue is that covid is capable of damaging our immune systems making us less able to fight off other infections. I don't know what the answer is, I don't know what it will mean over the next 10 years as people are repeatedly infected but it is concerning.

I think this is interesting. No one in my house has had covid. None of us have been sick for about 2 years now, family and friends who have had covid are complaining about how they are always sick lately. Possibly covid has decreased their immune systems. I keep waiting for us all to get sick as everyone around us have been dropping like flies for weeks/months but we just haven't seemed to catch anything. It's going to be some shock to the system when we do get sick after so long without even a cold.

When the pandemic first started there were so many self appointed experts on here, they seemed to be thoroughly enjoying it.
There was an AIBU about bringing back masks this week, I think that's still going on.
I certainly wouldn't think of MN as my go to reliable information source re Covid.

@theoldhasgone what facts did they quote as I didn't think anything was definitely proven yet? It normally takes a while to fully understand
Can you link to proven studies that have been peer reviewed etc ?
Plus the poster they were rude to said they just don't want to be informed that is also a choice
Plus manners cost nothing and just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't make you superior

I understand that scientists are studying things from a pure scientific observational angle but the clickbaity title makes it sound like this is a fact that we should know.
Not a medical professional but I have learned that science is rapidly evolving and could change again tomorrow. For example there was a theory about children being super spreaders one day which is disproved another.
OP, if you're going to post something like this then you need to explain why people should know about this. Are you trying to say something specific like more research is needed into Long Covid ? In which case, it would be helpful if you spelled it out like that. I don't even know if Strep A is related to RSV?

Isn't the point the OP was making that we are not getting ill because we have been shielded from lots of bugs and so don't have immunity (immunity debt) but that COVID has actively damaged our immune system and that is why there is a lot of illness? Especially in places where COVID was widespread because of no lockdown, eg Sweden.

Yes but what can we do? Covids here zero covid didn't work in any country. Life goes on or you can sit in your house in self imposed lockdown.

I don't think the point is to go back to lock down but to just be aware that Covid might have longer term implications for all of us even if we don't have long covid. I think if scientists are keeping an eye on this its a good thing as it make provide treatment or answers in the future if this does prove to me an issue.

Many people are blaming the unusually severe winter bugs on so-called 'immunity debt', the false idea a prolonged period of health makes one more susceptible to infections.

No, you've stated this incorrectly OP. The increase in current illnesses is (according to the immunity debt theory) due to the amount of isolation we've all had over the past couple of years due to lockdowns, mask wearing, social distancing etc. In other words, a lack of challenge to the immune system somehow weakens it so that we are now far more vulnerable than before.

I am a sample of n=1 but this is my two penneth. I've never been overly keen on the immunity debt idea simply because for the past 15 or so years I've been house bound and haven't had the usual seasonal illnesses others get (and I certainly used to get everything going when younger). My DP doesn't bring many things home as his immunity is good, but when he did catch Covid in July 2020, I thought, oh no, this is it for me. I have autoimmunity and so wasn't keen to catch the virus. However I had no symptoms at all. I couldn't believe I just didn't get ill. Now according to the theory, I should definitely have become very ill. Many months later I tested my antibodies and I had definitely been infected by the virus.

This year I did have Covid, as did my DP, and we were both equally ill with it (not too bad but nothing I'd want to repeat tomorrow). I should have been much worse, surely?

I know that's just an example but I don't feel my immune system has had its feet up resting for 15 years, so to speak. In fact, it has been very busy with my autoimmune symptoms. Just because you haven't had a cold doesn't mean your immune system isn't busy with other things. We constantly encounter viruses and bacteria even if we live alone and don't mix, because those tiny things are literally everywhere.

Isolation, in and of itself, and the stress and loneliness of being confined, suppresses immunity. So either way, doomed if you do, doomed if you don't.

Re the virus SARS-CoV-2 itself, my thoughts are these:

This is an insidious, nasty virus, more so than many realise. It can affect various parts of our bodies unseen and unknown to us (as can other viruses, for example, Epstein-Barr which can hide out and affect us for years, if reactivated). I think a lot more research needs to be done before we truly realise the extent of what can happen.

As others have said, this virus is here to stay so we cannot avoid it, sadly. What I believe is that we need to look after ourselves nutritionally. Virus infections (all infections) deplete nutrients as our bodies fight off the invaders. These nutrients need to be replaced or else we become deficient and that in turn leads to other problems. Repeated infections are particularly bad as our bodies may not have time to recover between them.

@CrunchyCarrot "In other words, a lack of challenge to the immune system somehow weakens it so that we are now far more vulnerable than before."

I though the OP was saying this isn't true that a lack of exposure to illness doesn't make the immune system weak. Getting a particular strain of a virus and recovering should give you immunity to that particular strain of virus but not to other illnesses, if anything you are likely to be run down and more vulnerable to infection. Its like people who get the flu vaccine then come down with a stain of flu not included in their vaccination, they get sick but say it would have been so much worse without the vaccine when infact they had no protection from that particular strain as it wasn't part of the vaccine.

My understanding is that there was just less spread of various colds and bugs over the last two years so that we have no immunity to these individual strains of colds and so on so we are picking them up one after the other rather than getting one or two each year over the past couple of years.

I think the issue of covid causing long term damage to the immune system is kind of a seperate issue which may be making things worse. The OP is suggesting that if this continues to be a new trend next year with people being ill far more frequently then it might down to the impact of covid on our immunity, not saying it is but its a possibility.

I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s a longer term impact on immunity - I had glandular fever as a teen then caught everything going and got really walloped by it for about 18 months/2years after. Had covid in October and have been poorly with one thing after another since and feel very similar.

hopefully this will be similar and I’ll gradually get to a point where a cold feels like a cold and not a steamroller again 👍🏼

I think there's something in this, lots of highly educated immunologists have been saying this for a while on twitter.